claims for russian and JG 5 25.11.43

[focusfocus]

hello

12 airacobras and 6 yak-9 of 2./20 IAP as escort for 9 Pe-2 : their target was Hoybuktmoen airfield ( kirkenes ).

two Airacobras were shot down: 1 P-39 of 2./255 IAP (Jlt.Dimitrij Pitchuk KIA)
1 P-39 of ??? IAP (Nikolaij Ahkmatov KIA)

by who? for russian, 1 bf 109 shot down by ??


Luostari (Petsamo) was attacked by 16 Il-2 escorted by 6 hurricanes,6 P-40 and 14 Yak

6 Il-2, 1 Yak and 4 P-40 shot down
13 bf 109!! shot down by russians

I have 14 russian aircrafts shot down by JG 5,but also 25! and 8 by flak!

can anyone help

Thank You

[gaupe75]

According to Eric Mombeeks JG5 books, 24 were shot down, most in the Petsamo area, but Høybuktmoen is not far from that. Of these, there is only one P-39, which was shot down by Uffz Rudolf Gerndt of 14./JG5, 3km southeast of Fl. Pl. (Airport) Petsamo

[focusfocus]

hi

sorry, but I have a Il-2 for Uffz Gerndt and Ofw Luy not a P-39 ( Mombeek book "band 1" page 277)

if really one P-39 was shot down 3 km southeast of Petsamo ( Petchenga in russian) why two P-39 were shot down in "Vognfjordfjellet" ( 50 km of Hoybuktmoen : kirkenes airport and 160 km of Petsamo ) ?

the remains of JLT.Pitchuk brought down from the mountain autumn 2000 and buried at Litza on 6 october 2007

if our russians friends are more informations

regards

[gaupe75]

The claims list I looked at, is in the fourth band, regarding the date it self, Mombeek has no entry for that day in band 3, which it should be chronlologically.

Anyway, this has to be a massive surprise attack, and kind of chaos, Ehrler claimed four down planes this day, so it must have been kind of the fox in the hen house, and records probably would indicate that.

This is your reference right?
https://ktsorens.tihlde.org/flyvrak/vognfjord.html

[focusfocus]

right for the reference but I don't have the "band 4" of Mombeek books

regards

[Juha]

On 25.11.43 Soviets made 2 big attacks against Petsamo airfield and one one smaller against Kirkenäs airfield. And Germans overclaimed and misidentified their victims. Entirely normal on a busy day. That's why there are conflicting figures.

[focusfocus]

guys

somebody has the détail of the russian losses and the claimed victories ?

best regards

[Kari Lumppio]

Originally Posted by focusfocus

guys

somebody has the détail of the russian losses and the claimed victories ?

best regards

Hello!

Rune Rautio from Norway is your man. He has the data from Juri Rybin's archival researches for Northern VVS affairs. Rune is member of this forum but has not been acticve for several years now.

Valeri Romanenko is your man if you are after VVS P-39 or P-40 info (down to serial nubers, individual a/c histories and so). I do not know how to contact him. He used to hang around at airforce.ru -forum ( https://www.vif2ne.org/nvi/forum/0/0.htm ) but might not be a member any more?

Cheers,
Kari

Cheers,
Kari

[Juha]

According to Valtonen's Luftwaffen Pohjoinen Sivusta p. 251 note 60 Soviet losses to fighters and AA: at Petsamo: 1 Yak-1 (20 IAP), 4 P-40N (78 IAP) and 7 Il-2s (46 ShAP); at Kirkenäs: 1 Il-2 (46 ShAP) and 2 P-39s (255 IAP). Valtonen's source is Rune Rautio.

HTH
Juha

[gaupe75]

Rune Rautio is Eric Mombeeks source too, but there might of course have been more information discovered after the publishing og the JG5 books.