Bf-109 Downed 17-12-44

[pdame141]

All:

Attached is a gun camera still of the final moments of a Bf-109 downed by Lt. George Bauer of the 397th FS on 17 December 1944 near Prum, Germany.

On 17 December 1944, the 397th FS was bounced by 22 FW-190s and 15 Bf-109s while on a ground attack mission. In the engagement, Lt. William Kerr earned a Distinguished Service Cross for downing two FW-190s, two Bf-109s and a scoring a probable on a third Bf-109. The 397th FS lost Lt. Frederick C. Stoll in the engagement (see MACR 11002).

It looks to me like this is a JG 4 machine based on the black-white-black tail band. I can't quite make out any Gruppe marking, although I seem to faintly discern some type of bar/wavy bar marking over the tail band.

I'd appreciate any help identifying this machine and its pilot.

By way of attribution, the attached photo is from the USAAF WWII photos database on Fold3 (NARA Ref. No. 342-FH-3A18037-60289AC).

As always, thanks in advance for any help.

Best regards,
Paul Dame

[Adam]

JG 4 losses were:
I Gruppe:
Lt Otto Brindlinger MIA Bf109G-14 WNr 462791, Gelbe 15+ 100%
Lt Heinz Krause WIA Bf109G-14 WNr 464171, 100%

III Gruppe:
Uffz Walter Ziegler MIA Bf109G-14 WNr 462921, Blue 4+ 100%
Uffz Heinz Gras MIA Bf109K-4 WNr 330318 Weisse 2+ 100%
Uffz Gerhard Walther MIA Bf109K-4 WNr 330347 Schwarze 2+ 100%

IV Gruppe:
Bf109G-10 WNr 490394 but I have no reason or action associated with this loss.

[ClinA-78]

@ to the 109 Experten : Is it possible to narrow to the version according the tail-wheel?

ClinA-78

[Marc-André Haldimann]

Not really Clin. From what we see of the airframe, this is definitely a Bf 109 G-14, with small engine and wing bulges, stocked up tailplane and Erla Haube. All those features do fit the G-14 type.

According to what is seen on the pictures, I./JG 4 seems the most probable unit. We might this see either W.Nr. 462791 or 464171...

Cheers
Marc

[hanshauprich]

Ltn. Otto Brindlinger shoot down near Trier, KIA.

Ltn. Heinz Krause, shoot down near Traben-Trabach, FSA, until end of war in different hospitals.

So it seems to me, that the Bf 109 was fom III./Gruppe.
h.

[Charles Bavarois]

Hello ClinA-78,

being no Bf109 experte at all, nevertheless:

K4s can be sorted out as they had fully retractable and covered tail-wheels.

BTW: IV Gruppe lost three Bf109s that day, two G10 and one G14/AS

HTH

Carl

[Merlin]

Paul,

the I./JG 4 could be left aside, because they were in combat with a P-38 formation some 50 to 70km southeast of Prüm.

Over the area around Prüm, the so called "Schnee Eifel" III. and IV./JG 4 lost together 10 Bf 109 during that dogfight. The losses listed in post #2 are only those, where the pilot was effected.

[ouidjat]

?? I didn't know/remember I removed ALL my attachments ???
...

Hi Gents,

since II./JG4 is not in .. I do suggest IV./JG4.

[ouidjat]

... And among the pilots who are not in the list above, who were not "effected" and who fought against P-47s of 397th FS I have:

15./JG4 Heinrichs, Uffz. Oskar, MIA (oups) flying a Bf109G-10 WNr.490694, 100%
13./JG4 Oberkampf, Uffz. Adolf, Injured -FSA, flying a Bf109G-14/ASM WNr.782288, 100%
15./JG4 Schmidt, Ltn. Lothar, WIA, G?, FSA .. but cause unknown in fact.

I'm sure the list is not complete.

[Marc-André Haldimann]

Thanks for the precisions, Carl and Merlin. Any existing loss list for III. and IV. Gruppe ?

Cheers
Marc