JV 44 - First combat loss: April 5th OR 8th ?

[gunbird]

According to JV 44: The Galland Circus by Robert Forsyth, April 5th 10:30,Oberst Steinhoff and Lt. Fahrmann carry out a mission.And Lt. Fahrmann was shot down over the Danube River .

But in the book Me262 Combat Diary by John Foreman & S.E. Harvey/Messerschmitt Me 262: The Production Log 1941-1945 by Dan O'Connell,this battle happened on April 8th .

Which date should be correct?

[Nick Beale]

RAF Air Historical Branch translation of "Luftwaffe Intelligence Reports" in the National Archives (AIR20/7891):

Supplement to evening report of 4.4.45
Luftflotte Reich: 2 Me 262 of Jagdverband Galland were operational over Southern Germany. 1 enemy reconnaissance aircraft was destroyed without loss.

Supplement to evening report of 5.4.45
Luftflotte Reich: 5 Me 262 of Jagdverband Galland were operational against heavy bomber formations over Bavaria. 2 enemy aircraft were shot down for the loss of 1 Me 262.

The next information after that is for 10 April, so I can't help regarding any actions on the 8th.

[gunbird]

Originally Posted by Nick Beale

RAF Air Historical Branch translation of "Luftwaffe Intelligence Reports" in the National Archives (AIR20/7891):

Supplement to evening report of 4.4.45
Luftflotte Reich: 2 Me 262 of Jagdverband Galland were operational over Southern Germany. 1 enemy reconnaissance aircraft was destroyed without loss.

Supplement to evening report of 5.4.45
Luftflotte Reich: 5 Me 262 of Jagdverband Galland were operational against heavy bomber formations over Bavaria. 2 enemy aircraft were shot down for the loss of 1 Me 262.

The next information after that is for 10 April, so I can't help regarding any actions on the 8th.

Thanks a lot !So I should take Robert Forsyth's description

[kaki3152]

Just a side note, the "reconnaissance aircraft" downed on April 4, 1945 was actually a
P-38J, s/n 44-25761, 14th FG flown by Lt. William Randle who was taken POW. A flight of the 14th FG , 49th FS was escorting an F-5 when they were attacked by JV-44. He was downed by Uffz. Schallmoser through an collision. Schallmoser's Me-262 was only lightly damaged in the encounter

[Karoband]

Both O'Connell, Production Log p. 211 and Foreman & Harvey, Combat Diary p. 232 ascribe Fahrmann's loss to the Thunderbolt of 1st Lieutenant John J. Usiatynski of the US 358th Group.

The following source, however, gives Usiatynski's victim on 8 April as Uffz. Wolfgang Severin:
www.armyairforces.com/rss-m125308.ashx

And this source gives Wolfgang Severin as a member of JV44:
www.me-262.de/home/jagdverband44jv44flu.php

regards,
Jim Geens

[gunbird]

Originally Posted by Karoband

Both O'Connell, Production Log p. 211 and Foreman & Harvey, Combat Diary p. 232 ascribe Fahrmann's loss to the Thunderbolt of 1st Lieutenant John J. Usiatynski of the US 358th Group.

The following source, however, gives Usiatynski's victim on 8 April as Uffz. Wolfgang Severin:
www.armyairforces.com/rss-m125308.ashx

And this source gives Wolfgang Severin as a member of JV44:
www.me-262.de/home/jagdverband44jv44flu.php

regards,
Jim Geens

Great info!So ,April 5th,Cpt.Fahringer of 56FG shot down Lt. Fahrmann.
About this victory , in German Jets Versus the U.S. Army Air Force,it reads
"
The luftwaffe pilot tried desperately to get into a cloud ,but he was thwarted by insufficient cover.
"

In Steinhoff's The Final Hours:
"
He(Fahrmann) flew at high speed into the thin, yellowish veils of mist and realized immediately that his hope of escaping from the pack had been in vain.
"