RAF Claims 27 Oct 40

[Chris Goss]

Lt Ernst Busch of Stab I./JG 3 was shot down by fighters crashing at New Addington which is between Croydon and Biggin Hill. Crash time was recorded as being 1200hrs but there are no claims at this time. The only location that could have matched was a kill by McKellar of 605 Sqn but his Bf 109 crashed 20 miles south of Croydon at 0930hrs. Any thoughts?

[Peter Cook]

Hi Chris,

I recently transcribed the 27 October RAF Combat Reports for Simon Parry's BOBCA, and there are no claims for Bf 109s that are timed around 12.00. After the 605 Squadron claims at 09.30, S/L Hogan of 501 Squadron claimed a 109 probably destroyed near Redhill at 09.40, and the next 109 claim was by Sgt Cook of 66 Squadron at 13.40. In his report he stated that he believed that his 109 had come down in the sea off Dover.

Peter

[Chris Goss]

Thanks so who got Busch then? Could be the time of crash is wrong as Hogan's 0930hrs claim is right location

[Peter Cook]

Ooops, on checking the original report for Hogan, although Foreman, followed by Parry, state: 501 Sqn - S/L H.A.V.Hogan Bf109 prob.dest. - Redhill - 09.40.

Checking the cover page of his original report (AIR 50/162/26 p. 5) Hogan's claim is actually timed at 09.20 approx. location 5 miles SW of Kenley, and is for a 'Me 110 Jaguar (shared)'.

So this makes McKellar the likely candidate. The end of his report states:

"On my return Controller at Kenley asked me where this aircraft would have crashed. I informed him about 20 miles South of Croydon. He told me that that was where a Me109 had crashed at about the same time. I therefore feel justified in claiming a Me109 as destroyed by me."

[Chris Goss]

Apart from times don't match

[Franek Grabowski]

As far as location match, there are no other claims, and the day of loss is certain, I would not worry with the time being a little bit off. I have found crash times obviously wrong in a number of cases, so I guess, it was an approximate in the original report or perhaps some errors in transmission to higher levels of command.
BTW
Peter, have you transcribed all September reports? I have an extract from such a report, but accidentally, I have erased the source, and I cannot locate the report in question.
Franek

[robert]

On this day at 12.00 hrs (German time) 15 Bf109s (including 5 armed with bombs) of I./JG3 had taken off to attack downtown of London. Lt. Busch was last seen just before attack and during the attack some enemy planes were spotted - most likely at 12.43 hrs - but they did not engage. After the attack Lt. Busch was not present within the formation and was reported MIA. So he could be downed at the latest at approx. 12.43-12.50 hrs (German time) as the group returned at 13.15 hrs. I have a note with suggestion that he could be victim of blue section of 145 Sqn.

[Franek Grabowski]

Cannot be, 145 ORB explicitly states, that they did not intercept the enemy.

[Chris Goss]

Germans were GST on this date (GMT+2) while RAF was BST (GMT+1) so still no claims 1143-1150 UK time. In addiotion to Busch's crash, there were Bf 109s on land at Lenham (0900hrs), Newchapel (0830hrs), Penshurst (0915hrs), Upstreet (0940hrs), Lydd (0940hrs) so nothing after 0940hrs

[AndyMa]

Why couldn't it have been shot down by its own side?