Was 1H+FN an Heinkel He111P or an He 111H-3 & Other Questions

Hi fellow air history devotees - I very much need your help. I am modeling an Heinkel He 111H-3 and would like to use my decal collection to model 1H+FN (WNr. 3935) during September 11, 1940. I have read on a/c history / model sites that the subject was an H-3 and was damaged on that date during an attack on London but returned to base in Gilze-Rijen. Nonetheless, the book of a/c illustrations, "Luftwaffe: Bomber Camouflage and Markings 1940 - Heinkel He.111, Junkers Ju.88, Dornier Do.17" compiled by Peter G. Cooksley and Richard Ward, text by Christopher F. Shores, shows the 1H+FN during that Sept. 11 time to be an He 111P and not an H-3.
Questions: (1) was 1H+FN an He111P or an He 111H-3, (2) can you provide a reference showing it to be an H-3, and, someone said the verification is through the “EoE Luft Loss DB” but can’t find it, so (3) please name in full what “EoE Luft Loss DB” stands for, and (4) where I can find it?
Vielen Dank, Dave

[Chris Goss]

Luftwaffe records state H-3 but the Wk Nr would possible indicate an early H-5? I might be wrong on both counts!


EoE DB is a work in progress not a source for information

[Stig Jarlevik]

Dave

I can confirm that WNr 3935 was indeed a He 111 H-5 as Chris says.

Without a photo it is difficult to know exactly what 1H+FN was, but I have not a single registered He 111 P as being allocated to KG 26, so most likely it was at least a He 111 H

Cheers
Stig

[Rottler]

Hi,

according to the Gen.Qu. loss return from 19 Sep 1940 item 7 the unit code of the WNr. 3935 was 1H+EM. On 25 Sep 1940 this entry was corrected: Ergänzung/addition: Berichtige Kennzeichen in: "1H + EN".

Regards
Leo

[edNorth]

Ok, here goes. Version of "3935" 1H+EN (corrected) & clearly not 1H+FN on 11.09.40 was H-3
(clear misread from GQM as 3 and 5 are very similar on this German Typewriter)
- pic of BAMA Microfiche scan shows this clearly.

-but catch is: 3935 was not yet produced, and was (in range with other) H-5 made in early 1941.

[Rottler]

Hi,

in the Gen.Qu. loss return from 28 June 1941 item 67 is listed:
26.6. II./KG 55 He 111 H-8 3935 G1+IM 100%. The Lt Stork crew was KIA.

Regards
Leo

[edNorth]

Wikipedia:

The H-8 was a rebuild of H-3 or H-5 aircraft, but with balloon cable-cutting fender. The H-8 was powered by Jumo 211 D-1s.

Rottler (above) is exemplifying an exception (conversion), not main range, as my individual a/c list show main range be H-5s (Jumo 211 H´s & VDM props) from about 3508 to past 4038 when H-6 take over (Jumo 211 F´s with VS 11 props).
However not all is processed, Ju 88´s still have priority.

[Stig Jarlevik]

Originally Posted by edNorth

Ok, here goes. Version of "3935" 1H+EN (corrected) & clearly not 1H+FN on 11.09.40 was H-3
(clear misread from GQM as 3 and 5 are very similar on this German Typewriter)
- pic of BAMA Microfiche scan shows this clearly.

-but catch is: 3935 was not yet produced, and was (in range with other) H-5 made in early 1941.

Indeed Ed

It is admittedly a high WNr being a H-5 and it seems at least KG 26 never listed any in that range during 1940. First recorded loss in the WNr 39xx range seems to be 3953 on 20 May 1941.

I checked what Steenbeck in his KG 26 book states and I don't know how he has to come to such a conclusion, but he more or less sits on two horses here...
11/9 He 111 H-3 WNr 6936 1H+EN oder WNr 3935 1H+FN II./KG 26 etc, etc

So if it cannot be 3935 on that date, from where does Steenbeck gets his WNr 6936?? Could that in fact be valid?

Cheers
Stig

[Stig Jarlevik]

Originally Posted by edNorth

Wikipedia:

The H-8 was a rebuild of H-3 or H-5 aircraft, but with balloon cable-cutting fender. The H-8 was powered by Jumo 211 D-1s.

Rottler (above) is exemplifying an exception (conversion), not main range, as my individual a/c list show main range be H-5s (Jumo 211 H´s & VDM props) from about 3508 to past 4038 when H-6 take over (Jumo 211 F´s with VS 11 props).
However not all is processed, Ju 88´s still have priority.

Ed
According to Volker Koos the H-5 were WNr 3501 - 3700, 3733 - 4092. WNr 3701 - 3732 were H-3 for Romania.

Cheers
Stig

[Rottler]

Hello Stig,

the source for Steenbeck's 6936 is the Gen.Qu. loss return from 13 Sep 1940 item 9:
11.9. 5./KG 26 Feindflug, Ort: Gilze-Rijen, Ursache: Bauchlandung infolge Feindbeschuß, He 111 H-3 6936 1H+EN 40%.

Regards
Leo