Did Bf109G's use Gunpods during Kursk?

[yogybär]

Currently I work on a scenario simluating the atack of the VVS on germans AF's on 5th of July 1943.

My question goes like this:

Did the Bf's of JG52 and JG3 use gunpods in that stage?

[wotan]

During this period both geschwader had a mix of G-4s and G-6s (and some G-2s) and I recall seeing several images of G-4s belonging to JG52 (Hartmann) captioned as G-4/R6s (w/ gondolas) but I am unsure of the date[s]...

EDIT:

Over at Falcon's 109 site there are several images of G-4/R-6s. This may not help you with an actual percentage or total number of gondola equipped 109s for 5 July '43 but it shows some JG 52 G-4s were such equipped leading up to that date.

Most Orbats I have seen for the LW at Kursk don't specify sub-type (just G-4, G-6 etc...)

I am sure you have seen Pavel's Air Battle over Kursk 1943 site. In the lost list for JG 3 and JG 52 there are werk-numbers listed so you may be able to track down how many of those lost were equipped with gondolas.

[Csaba B. Stenge]

Yes, and the Hungarian fighters used /R-6 variants in July as well (in the same area).

[yogybär]

Yes, pictures are there, right. Thanks!

Werknummern wouldn't help because the pods were removable.

Csaba, the Hungarians flew a mix of F-4 and G-2, right?

[Pawel Burchard]

Originally Posted by yogybär

Currently I work on a scenario simluating the atack of the VVS on germans AF's on 5th of July 1943.

Khazanov/Gorbatsch book on air battle during Zitadelle contains nice and quite detailed description of the attack against the airfields from Russian side.
As for the Bf 109 gunpods I do not know definite answer.

kind regards,
Pawel

[Csaba B. Stenge]

The Hungarians had some mules as well (F-4 fuselage with the G-2's DB 605 engine)

[Graham Boak]

The comment about "mules" is interesting, as that is what is seen on the early Mistels. Presumably not the same individual aircraft as in Hungary. Does this imply a significant programme of re-engining, perhaps primarily for use in training units?

[Csaba B. Stenge]

Nope. These mules were born, because the Nazis sold many times just the crap planes to Hungary (worn out F-4's, for example, when their units used G-6's in the same time and area...). There were no available new DB 601 engines, that's why the knocked out old DB 601's were changed to DB 605's sometimes. In my Hungarian aces book, you'll see a nice example of this plane in a very good quality photo.

[Kurfürst]

Originally Posted by wotan

Over at Falcon's 109 site there are several images of G-4/R-6s. This may not help you with an actual percentage or total number of gondola equipped 109s for 5 July '43 but it shows some JG 52 G-4s were such equipped leading up to that date.

Most Orbats I have seen for the LW at Kursk don't specify sub-type (just G-4, G-6 etc...)

It's correct. 'G-4/R-6' is an incorrect designation,the gunpods kit, Rustsatz VI did not show up in the aircraft designation. A G-4 with or without gondolas, bombs, or draptank is the same, a G-4.

The /R-something designations are only for factory converted planes, ie. long range recces with two droptanks, tactical recces etc.

[Jens]

BTW also Woroshejkin identified R6 at Kursk, he mentioned as new G6.