Looking for info on two FAFL pilots 340th Squadron

[esc201faem]

Good evening
hope that everybody had a safe and happy X-mas
On my quest to find info on Spitfire POPOCATEPETL, I received the book LE GROUPE DE CHASSE ILE DE FRANCES, which left me with more dough's, there is no listing for POPOCATEPETL but left me to find more on the pilot that damaged the aircraft , also while going over the book I came across of another pilot with a very Latin american name.

I would appreciate any help to find out more on the following French Free pilots
that served in No.340 it appears they survived the war.

Sgt. Robert Coly FAFL/AA 30.042
Jose Davila Aguilera FAFL/AA 36.312

thanks in advance
Santiago

[Stig Jarlevik]

Can't help with the pilots as such Santiago

The Popocatapetl with 340 Sq was No I (W3803) and was received on 29 June 1942. It stayed with the unit until 15 Sep the same year when it was declared as Cat B due to the damage it received when Flt Sgt R Coly made a heavy landing with it at at Hornchurch, ensured the undercarriage collapsed and stood the aircraft on its nose. On 24 Sep the aircraft was sent to Air Service Training for repairs, but never returned to 340 Sq again.

Source: Gifts of war

By the way, is it Popocatapetl or Popocatepetl (The Gifts of war spells it both ways, and since my knowledge of ancient Aztec is worse then zero, I confess total ignorance.... )

Cheers
Stig

[jschreiber]

Hello


Jose Oscar Davila Aguilera (1914 - 2008) was a Venezuelian citizen. After the war, he was professor of Physics, then entered the diplomatic Corps, and was ambassador of Venezuela in Copenhagen and Brussels.



Kind regards

[JohnE]

Robert Coly served with 132 Squadron from June 1942 and 340 Squadron from September 1942. In January 1943 he was posted to RAF North Weald.

John Engelsted

[esc201faem]

Hello to everybody
Thank you for your responses
It appears that Sgt. Coly put that aircraft out of action during its time in No.340 that it didn't even get a squadron letter assign to it. the Book GUSTO LE GROUPE DE CHASSE "ILE DE FRANCE" 340 SQN. DE LA RAF by Federick Bruyelle list all the aircraft that served in 340 except W3803 .
happy new year 2020 to all

[Frédéric Bruyelle]

Good morning all

Thank you for this enriching exchange which highlights the interest of the drivers of Free France in the RAF.
In addition, I am very interested in collecting information which would be unknown to me, on the Spitifire POPOCATEPELT.

After verifications, I do not find any trace of it (see below). on the other hand, I would be very happy with any new information on sources or photos which would establish the presence of the Spitfire V W3803 within the "Groupe Ile de France" (340 sqd), information that I cannot confirm today.

Robert Coly arrived at 340 sqd. September 15, 1942. He arrived at the same time as Paul Hubidos and Robert Oury. (source: form 540 340 sqd, 15.09.42)
no trace of accident at this date when the unit carries out naval patrol flights in the Margate sector.

the squadron's form 541 does not mention the presence of this device within the unit in the time segment from the end of June to September 15, 1942.
Finally, the Spitfire Vs which flew on September 15, 1942 are the following:
AB849 BL757 BM905 BL469 BL566 AB 828 BL757 BL878 BM343 AD513 EN908 AB988
The pilots who made a flight are: Guignard, Kerlan, Gibert, Héliès, Massart, Renaud, Chauvin, Reeve, Schloesing, Fournier, Kennard.
A priori, there is no room for a possible presence of this aircraft at this time in the Ile de France Group.

according to "Spitfire the History" (Eric Morgan & Edward Schacklady), the W3803 did indeed have an accident but not the 340 sqd.



I also did not notice any mention of the presence of this airplane at 340 in this book, whose data are available on the web.

https://allspitfirepilots.org/aircraft/W3803

Robert Coly arrived at the unit on the 15 sept 42, and it is not customary to fly a pilot the same day who presents himself at the end of his transfer.

he arrives from the 132 sqd that he left on September 9, no doubt he was on leave at the home of the French Wings in London.

there are many errors in Forms 540 and 541. they are noted regularly.
Every day, I use to do some mistakes too.
but here, no source known to me indicates the presence of this plane in 340 sqd.

I would have been happy with an error, the Spitfire POPOCATEPELT would have been welcome in the collection of Spitfire photos from Free France.

But all of the elements cited discard this track.

Are you able to offer me sources on this subject?

Best regards

fred

[Frédéric Bruyelle]

In addition.

Studying the hypothesis of a Spitfire called "POPOCATEPETL", I've found this:

Spitfire W3814
https://fyldebbmfund.wordpress.com/g...ion-spitfires/


and that one :

spitfire W3801 - 71 sqd
http://francecrashes39-45.net/page_fiche_av.php?id=3489


Do you have other hypotheses to your knowledge?

I wish you an happy new year 2020

Fred

[Stig Jarlevik]

Fred

You need to get hold of the aircraft record card.
I know that the late Jim Halley in his Air Britain books about RAF aircraft had access to them. He lists the aircraft as in use with 340 Sq back in 1983 (no dates)

My next source is Gifts of War by Henry Boot and Ray Sturtivant.
They list three aircraft named either Popocatapetl or Popocatepetl (note the tl ending which is more "Aztec" as I see it than your lt)
I was W3803
II was W3801
III was W3814
The details they provide for W3803 seem very accurate. They cannot be solely based upon the aircraft's record card but must come from other sources as well, such as the Squadrons ORBs.

Personally I am very convinced that this aircraft belonged to 340 Sq since I cannot imagine any of these historians inventing such a detail.

Finally the website you list takes its information from another website called Spitfire production. That site is basically a copy of the Morgan-Shacklady book.

With regard to R Coly and his crash on 15 Sep, that is obviously what is quoted somewhere in the remaining records.

Cheers
Stig

[esc201faem]

Hello to everybody
I have the aircraft record card for W3803 its shows that this aircraft was well traveled in the RAF fighter command
129 squadron
154 squadron
313 squadron
340 squadron taken on charge 29.6.42 ,category B damaged 15.9.42 from there to the maintenance unit until send back Vickers and eventually to the Portuguese Air Force where ended its operational life.
Mr. Bruyelle just got your book and love it with the details you added ,like the tables for claims, aircraft, and personnel that server there. Thank you Merci ,Gracias.

Happy new year 2020
Santiago

[Frédéric Bruyelle]

Good evening Stig,


I would like to enrich my knowledge on the subject of 340 sqd.

I re-read this afternoon the ORBs (form 540 541), the flying log book of two of the pilots who flew that day (Massart and Gibert).

Unfortunately, none of these documents suggest that this Spitfire flew in the colors of the 340 sqd.

French documents also do not mention any 340 sqd accident on this date. (Journal de Marche and Historique).


I think an error is always possible.

There are errors in the archives. To be convinced of this, we must compare them to other archives that would dedicate them.

- If you have such documents ?

- If you have a picture of a Free French "Popocatepetl"?

- if you know the code of this aircraft: GW-?

that would be great a new.

if you accept it, we could work together on this subject as soon as we can share your sources.

I wish you a good end of WE


fred