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| Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the German Luftwaffe and the Air Forces of its Allies. |
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#2
20th August 2006, 04:31
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Re: Photos + 8-29
Me 262's are with most likely with KG 51.
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#3
20th August 2006, 12:22
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Re: Photos + 8-29
Hi,
this Fw 189 has different u/c and engines than usual. Any idea about the sub-type ? http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...m=230019282611 Von Alles
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#4
20th August 2006, 14:58
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Re: Photos + 8-29
Hi All
http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...m=190021542567 Anyone who can ID this one and what it was doing in Poland? Cheers Stig
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#5
20th August 2006, 15:50
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Re: Photos + 8-29 - Me 262
Ed,
Based on my study of the photograph – and related aircraft from KG 51, I think that it is possible that the aircraft is question is this one: WNr.170093: Call sign KP+OU. Me 262 A-2a. Lt. Wilhelm Batel, the Gruppe Technical Officer of I./KG 51 made a 29 minute flight at Lechfeld on 18 September 1944, taking off at 17:50. He flew it again the next day from 14:03 to 14:17. Hptm. Hans-Christoff Buttmann of Kommando Schenk 3./KG 51, flying out of Rheine, was killed during a combat mission on 5 October 1944, when he bailed out at 100 ft. (30 m.) after being shot down within five miles of Nijmegen, by a Spitfire IXB of 401 RCAF at 15:00 UK time. Probably part of a five way shared claim, including Flight Lt. Robert Monroe Davenport, Squadron Leader Hedley Joseph Everard, and Squadron Leader Roderick Illington Alpine Smith, all from No. 401 Squadron, RCAF. A different account is mentioned in A.I.2(g) Report #256, where it states that he bailed out at 2,000 feet, but his parachute failed. It also mentioned that the aircraft was camouflaged in 76 undersides, and ‘mottled green’ upper surfaces, with yellow tips. It had carried two MK 108 cannon (the other 2 gun ports were plugged with wood) and two bomb racks. It crashed in a very boggy field, creating a 30 by 12 foot hole. The report also stated that the unit code was 9K+BK. The apparent code was '9K+BL'. (Source: “Me 262 Production Log”, Dan O’Connell, Classic, 2005) The camouflage of this aircraft, based on what is visible on parts of the tail, appears to have a meandering overspray of a dark colour over a pre-existing scheme. This was a common scheme to KG 51 at that time with the overspray most probably unit/field-applied using either dark green 83 or 71. The original scheme appears as a lighter shade representing the early standard using the two greys 74 and 75, but this was wholly unsuitable for bombers and a period where ground concealment was necessary to address the effects of increasing Allied air superiority. An excellent example of this scheme is the closely-related aircraft that is the subject in a short but well recognized cine sequence: “9K+we.BH”, WNr.170096 of 1./KG 51 photographed at Rheine in the fall of 1944. It is interesting that in the above claim report, the pilot describes the aircraft as having “yellow tips”. This feature is not attributed to a particular part of the aircraft and could be referring I./KG 51s practice of painting the top of the tail and nose in the appropriate staffel colour. Regarding the location, either Juvincourt or Rheine is possible, but if the aircraft identification is correct, then it would have to be the latter. The background vegetation certainly looks to retain its leaves suggesting summer to mid-autumn time frame but no later. The loss occurred in early October, so this period would match the observed vegetation attributes in the photo. So: Me 262 A-2a, “9K+ge.BL”, WNr.170093, 3./I./KG 51. Comments and thoughts appreciated. Cheers, David
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#6
20th August 2006, 17:27
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Re: Photos + 8-29
Quote:
__________________
Sergio Luis dos Santos Rio de Janeiro - Brasil
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#7
20th August 2006, 17:32
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Re: Photos + 8-29
Quote:
__________________
Sergio Luis dos Santos Rio de Janeiro - Brasil
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#8
20th August 2006, 17:58
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Re: Photos + 8-29
My God, Sergio, please!
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#9
20th August 2006, 22:35
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Re: Photos + 8-29
David,
Thank you for your detailed reply. I have little knowledge in this area. My only hope when I find photos like this is that they are new and not showing well known aircraft or reproductions. Regards, Ed
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#10
20th August 2006, 23:53
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Re: Photos + 8-29 - Me 262
Quote:
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