Bf 110 claims in the Battle of Britain

[Peter Cook]

I am trying to understand why there are so few Battle of Britain claims by Bf 110 pilots included in the OKL claims listings of Wood, Balss, etc. For example, on 13 August the Luftflotte 3 Einzelmeldung lists claims by ZG 2 for '12 Hurricane and Spitfire' and for ZG 76 for '11 Hurricane and Spitfire'. But the only Bf 110 claims for this date that are listed in the Wood - O.K.L. Fighter Claims files are for: Oblt. Erhard Bremer - 5./ZG 76 - Spitfire and Fw. Max Leschnig - 5./ZG 76 - Spitfire. Balss repeats just these two claims. A few additional Bf 110 claims are listed in other sources, such as Mathews and Foreman's Luftwaffe Aces in their claims listings for individual pilots, but are there any other sources that might provide additional Bf 110 claim listings for the Battle of Britain period? I have the relevant John Vasco books, but these list losses, not claims.

[Johannes]

Hi Peter

Basically the pre-daily mikrofilm claims were compiled by Staffel, or in the case of the ZG units Gruppe, almost all are missing. Only one Gruppe each for ZG26 and ZG76 survived, plus a few A.S.M claims for all units.

Many units moved to the daily claims about 23rd July 1942, others later.

Abschüßetafel and flugbücher will help you.

Hope this answers your question

Kind Regards

Johannes

[John Manrho]

As Johannes stated, the primary files, the mikrofilms for most ZG did not survive. You have to rely on FB and other source and try to rebuild it. I know several people are working on this subject, but this is very difficult.

The same goes also for late war claims.

John

[Peter Cook]

Thank you Johannes and John,

I understand the situation now. Johannes, you mentioned the Abschüßetafel, do any of these survive for any ZGs from 1940 and if so how can I get a copy of them?

Peter

[robert]

Peter I wish you good luck. It took us almost 15 years to get approx. 80% of these claims clear.

[Chris Goss]

I agree with Robert. Such sources are now probably discovered so this is as good as it is going to get

[Johannes]

Hi Peter

Can't recall any abschüßetafel for ZG units, but some are likely to have existed until some point in time.
Please remember that publications sometimes have false information that is plagiarised so much, that it is believed FACT. There are also abschüßeliste, but these include those by their bordfunker, the mikrofilms credit such events to the bordfunker and not the pilot, these can usually be detected by the low rank of the gunner.

Somebody decades ago would always DEMAND my source, I didn't know why this was so important to them. But, now I realise their wisdom and put my source in a column.

Drop me your e.mail address and I'll send you my ZG files.

Kind Regards

Johannes

[Peter Cook]

Thanks Johannes - see my PM - Peter