Junkers 88A-1 9K+MR W.Nr.7092 20.9.40

[steve sheridan]

Hi, I have come across another discrepancy regarding an a/c from KG51 damaged 20.9.40. with conflicting information if anybody could help.

This a/c was reportedly 45% damaged in a landing accident following operations over London at Lille- Nord. The pilot was listed as Fw. Karl Muller and crew believed to be as follows;
Bo. Fw.Helmut Brocke,
Bf. Uffz.Adam Lohnes,
Bm Fw.Alfred Scholz All unhurt.

Off the top of my head this is recorded in Wolfgang Dietrich's Kampfgeschwader 51 book pg.129, and also illustrated in Chris Goss' Air War Archive Ju88 The Early Years pg's 73 and 74.

This is all completely at odds with the Flugbuch I have for Uffz. Siegfried Drechsler who flew this plane 9K+MR on the evening of 19.9.40 to London, taking off at 00.45hrs and crashing at Lille at 06.02hrs on what was his 9th operational mission with his observer Uffz.Heinz Bussmann.
Could anybody help or offer any clues?
Best regs,
Steve.

[Chris Goss]

I now have 9K+MR being crewed by Dreschler, Bussmann. Lachenmaier and Wolfsberger taking off 0049 hrs and landing at Lille 0542hrs. The info in my book came from another source which is now probably incorrect. MR was regularly flown by Mueller and to a lesser extent Oblt Simon prior to this

[steve sheridan]

Hi Chris thanks ever so much for confirming this, Lachenmaier and Wolfsberger had flown with Drechsler previously so this makes this quite likely.
Great to wrap this up once and for all.
Kindest regs,
Steve.

[AndyMa]

Forgive me for being confused, but what has been "wrapped up"?
What did happen to WNr.7092 9K+MR?
45% damage on 19.9.40, or...?

[Adriano Baumgartner]

Andy, from what I read and understood, 9K+MR suffered an accident (45% you say) at Lille, at 05:42hs with the crew of Uffz Dreschler crew (as per Flugbuch owned by Steve Sheridan).

The previous (published) information was that the crew who had crashed at Lille was Fw. Karl Muller, which I understood is NOT correct.

Now both historians (Goss/Sheridan) agree and confirm that the crew was that of Dreschler.

Hope this is clear now. At least this is what I got from the message.

[Adriano Baumgartner]

Correcting the crash hour: 06:02hs according to the Flugbuch (05:42 according to Goss)

[steve sheridan]

Andy, has Adriano explained this would appear to confirm that previously given crew detail as now been corrected by Chris Goss and from the flugbuch of Siegfried Drechsler.
Best regs,
Steve.

[Stig Jarlevik]

I think Andy is confused by the two dates you give Steve

In your initial message you state both the 20th and further down the 19th.

However I believe (if we disregard the crew) the 20th to be the correct date.

And I agree that the variation in the times when they took off and crash landed is a bit annoying...
Crews usually have the same time on their watches, so something does not feel right about all this.
At face value, two different take offs and two different landings, meaning two different aircraft?

Cheers
Stig

[edNorth]

I agree with Stig. Historians try make something obscure fit without enough info.
Besides code of a/c (50%) at Lille-North 20.09. is NOT given in GQM losses, but same wnr claimed be this code
was five weeks earlier in KTB. At times of heavy losses this in my opinion is poor judgement
(chance of a/c CODE replaced VERY HIGH). Adding ... And codes painted out due Night OPS

[Chris Goss]

All I can add is this aircraft suffered the incident early hours of 20 Sep 40. First Ju 88 with a code +MR appears on 12 Aug 40. No mention of it suffering any damage from then on but between 10 and 16 Sep 40, no mention of it so perhaps it was being serviced? Who knows for certain