Special Mission 27 Sep 42

[Chris Goss]

Two Ju 88C-6s from 13./KG 40 carried out such a mission in the Channel on this date, bumping into what they thought were Spitfires but were in fact Typhoons of 257 Sqn which intercepted them south of Start Point. Any idea as to what they might have been up to?

[Nick Beale]

According to the Seekkriegsleitung KTB, the blockade runner Brake sailed for Japan that day, so that could be it.

[Chris Goss]

Thanks Nick but I doubt it. The Brake sailed from La Pallice/La Rochelle way south and what difference would two Ju 88s make off Start Point? Maybe they were hoping to get ASR aircraft as a result of the losses suffered by Fighter Command the day before?

[Brian Bines]

An Enemy Activity Report for the 27th Sept shows an aircraft flying over Plymouth and Penzance in the morning with two Fw 190s flying along the Kent coast in the afternoon and four Fw 190s attacking shipping south of Plymouth at mid day .

The 257 Sqd ORB shows Coombs and Henman as being vectored onto two Ju 88s flying south at 500 ft. at 1225 hrs . They both used all their ammo and broke off as the 88s made it to cloud cover . Both Ju 88s where claimed as damaged with Henman silencing the gunner of the one he attacked.

Would the two 13/KG 40 aircraft and the a.m. flight over Plymouth and Penzance have any connection to the midday Fw 190 shipping attack ?

[Chris Goss]

Brian: Thanks for this but why would you send two heavy fighter to the Channel? It was not V./KG 40's MO

[Laurent Rizzotti]

KG 2 lost two Do 217 during the night of 25-26 September 1942. One crashed in UK but the other was just posted missing. So possibly 13./KG 40 was flying a search flight for the missing crew ?

By the way, 257 Sqn claimed a Ju 88 shot down the next day off Bridgeport, but there is no German loss reported by "The Blitz then and now, vol 3" between 26 and 30 September. Any idea what they attacked ?

[Chris Goss]

True that KG 2 was operating over the West Country night of 25 Sep 42 but this mission would have been over 24 hours afterwards and in any case why use two heavy fighters from Lorient when there were many other Luftwaffe assets nearer the northern French coast? There was quite a bit of RAF ASR action on 27 Sep as day before as 133 Sqn had lost 11 Spitfires over or off Brittany. As to the claim off Bridport (not Bridgeport), I can see nothing that matches unless Matti can help. I can also confirm that 257 Sqn was responsible for wounding one of the 13./KG 40 gunners-the PlQ for the casualty is directly south of Start Point

[Brian Bines]

One other thought on this at around 1630 hrs on the 27th the U-165 was sunk to the S/W of Lorient by a Wellington of 311 Sqd , which crash landed on return at 1958 hrs. with combat damage and wounded crewmen . Is it a possibilty that the two Ju 88s were operating over the Channel to the south of Coastal Command bases in the S/W of the UK in support of the U-Boot , which when attacked was on the surface . Weather was reported as 4/10 to 6/10 cloud cover and poor visibilty

[Laurent Rizzotti]

Originally Posted by Brian Bines

One other thought on this at around 1630 hrs on the 27th the U-165 was sunk to the S/W of Lorient by a Wellington of 311 Sqd , which crash landed on return at 1958 hrs. with combat damage and wounded crewmen . Is it a possibilty that the two Ju 88s were operating over the Channel to the south of Coastal Command bases in the S/W of the UK in support of the U-Boot , which when attacked was on the surface . Weather was reported as 4/10 to 6/10 cloud cover and poor visibilty

The usual procedure would be for V./KG 40 to protect U-165 by flying patrols SW of Britanny rather than N of it. From what I understand from the Bloody Biscay book and the Luftwaffe claim list, 8./JG 2 will be active in Britanny area while KG 40 Ju 88s will fly more south and west.

According to the Enemy Activity Report cited by Brian, "4 Fw 190 attacked shipping south of Plymouth at mid day". This period is consistent with the interception of two Ju 88s by 257 Sqn (1225-1315 hrs), while the attack on U-165 was several hours later.

By the way I can't find any trace of a German air attack on shipping that day on British Admiraly War Diary on fold3, and there is nothing either in Chris' book "Luftwaffe fighter-bombers over Britain".

What I see on the other hand on British Admiraly War Diary (https://www.fold3.com/image/30133006...r-ii-war-diari and https://www.fold3.com/image/30133012...r-ii-war-diari) is that 5 British destroyers and four MLs were deployed from Plymouth to search airmen, presumably the Spitfire pilots lost the day before. Maybe it was this naval activity that prompted Luftwaffe to send two Ju 88s check what was happening.