Uffz. Wilhelm Weber, 10./JG 51

[Gaston]

Hello everyone,
On September 22, 1943, Uffz. Wilhelm Weber (29 kills, EP, DK), a member of 10./JG 51, died in a plane crash (KIFA) west of Kamensk (today Kamensk-Shakhtinsky, Russia). Is the cause of the crash known? He probably died in a Bf 109 G-6. At that time, 10./JG 51 had Fw 190 A-6 and Bf 109 G-6 aircraft. Does anyone know the type of aircraft and its W.Nr., please?
Thank you very much, have a nice day.

[Leo Etgen]

Hi Gaston

22 September 1943: Unteroffizier Karl-Heinz Weber (29 victories) of 10./JG 51 killed in Bf 109 G-6 (W.Nr. 15 867) which crashed due to bad weather on a ferry flight four kilometers west of Kamenskoje

Horrido!

Leo

[Johannes]

Hi Gaston

I agree with Leo, it was Karl-Heinz Weber with thirty-one confirmed claims all between 8th June 1943 and 20th September 1943. The mikrofilms display both surname and forename. He was active at exactly the same time as the eichenlaubträger Karl-Heinz Weber of 7./JG 51(133 confirmed claims). Don't think your man got the DKiG though.

Kind Regards

Johannes

[Gaston]

Hi Leo and Johannes,

Thank you very much for the information.
It's interesting because in the OKL lists of victories in the East, Uffz. Weber is listed as Wilhelm. Yes, both Webers achieved multiple kills on some of the same days. Fortunately, they cannot be confused thanks to their ranks and staffel (7./JG 51 vs. 10./JG 51). Is it possible that his full name was Wilhelm Karl-Heinz Weber? This pilot, born in 1923, was awarded the EP two days before his death on September 20, 1943, together with Rudolf Wagner from 10./JG 51.
Johannes: May I ask on which days you have two extra victories?
Uffz. Weber shot down 27 aircraft from June 8, 1943, to August 5, 1943, and then the last two (28th and 29th victories) on September 20, 1943.
OKL has this pilot's victories listed as follows: 2x June 8, June 14, June 28, 3x July 5, 4x July 6, 2x July 9, July 11, 5x July 13, 4x July 14, 2x July 17, 2x August 5, 2x September 20.
Johannes, you're right, Uffz. Weber probably never got DK.
Thank you very much, have a nice day.

[Johannes]

Hi Gaston

Would appear the extra/missing two are 6th July1943(Kursk)Generally JG 51 were an honest bunch, all Weber's were with 10./JG 51:-

6th July 1943 als unteroffizier:-

Il-4 10km SSE Trosna 0427 hrs 500 metres nr.8
Il-4 20km SSE Trosna 0430 hrs 250 metres nr.9
Il-2 North of Pomgri 0438 hrs 150 metres nr.10
Il-2 North of Pomgri 0442 hrs 200 metres nr.11
La-5 15km NNW Maloarkhangelsk 1135 hrs 500 metres nr.12
La-5 10km SE Glazunowka 1140 hrs 150 metres nr.13

Total per typ:-

Il-2 =6
Il-4 =8
Boston= 6
La-5= 6
LaGG-3= 4
MiG-3=1

His four on 14th July 1943 were disputed=A.S.M, lack of air witness most likely as all claimed between 1840-1853 hrs at very low altitude.

Let me know which two are additional?

Kind Regards

Johannes

P.S

Regarding name, could be Wilhelm Karl-Heinz Weber, often on the mikrofilms they are differing to what we expect(Oskar-Heinz Bär for one), guess we would need date of birth details to find out.

[John Manrho]

Uffz. Karl-Heinz Weber was born 01-02-1923

[Gaston]

Hi Johannes,

Great! Thanks for the info. I don't have any records of two La-5s (11:35, 11:40). Hopefully, we'll be able to find out his full date and place of birth someday.
Thank you, have a nice day.

[John Manrho]

Born in Morchenstern/Sud., nowadays Smrzovka, Czech Republic

[Gaston]

Hi John,

Great! Thank you for the information. I am currently in the Czech Republic, and I will try to search for Weber in the Smržovka records to find out his full name. If I succeed, I will let you know.
Thank you, have a nice day.

[Johannes]

Hi John and Gaston.

Firstly thank you John for the Birth details, I do have a question about this though. I assume you mean born 1st February not 2nd January, just came back from Nigeria, Visa was a nightmare, landing card even worse, and they used the European way for dates, but not for one single date which was the American way, anyway thought it was a mistake on the visa preventing me getting a landing card, but they just did things two different ways!.....no doubt to stop any confusion.

With the two additional claims I have just checked the daily mikrofilm claims just to be sure I had not made a mistake and they are clearly Weber anerk:- 307 & 309, but only rank, no forename. So I got the forename from somewhere else, but there is a secondary daily mikrofilm which just mostly duplicates JG 51's claims, so may have got it from there?

Kind Regards

Johannes