Sonderstaffel Schwilben, 10.5.40

[Adam]

Does anybody know from which unit/s the aircraft and crews of this unit were drawn and if they were returned immediately after the raid on the Meuse or was the unit retained for further special duties?

TIA

Adam

[Seaplanes]

On March 14, 1940, the intended 3./K.G.z.b.V.108 (under formation for Weserübung) was reformed as the Sonderstaffel Schwilden with the special mission to secure the bridges in Rotterdam on May 10, 1940. The Staffel was equipped with the He 59 aircraft. The Staffel was named after its commander, Hauptmann Schwilden.

[Stig Jarlevik]

Hallo Seaplanes

Did the Sonderkommando revert back to 3./KGrzbV 108 or what happened to it? Surely 3./KGrzbV 108 existed later during the war?

Cheers
Stig

[Seaplanes]

The Sonderstaffel Schwilden did not return to K.G.z.b.V. 108. Please note the difference between Kampfgeschwader z.b.V. 108 and Kampfgruppe z.b.V. 108. The latter was ordered formed on June 15, 1940 with 1. (seaplane Staffel) and 2./108 (landplane Staffel). On July 23, 1940, a Stab was added. The 3./K.Gr.z.b.V. 108 was not formed until April 3, 1941.

[hihotte]

Holá Adam,
very interesting question you raised here, especially when the answer from seaplane was so perfect. I enclose two images of the raid and do remember that I saw a short newsrail of this incident somewhere in the web. I will come back to you with the info when I find it.
Greetings from Spain to "down under".
@ seaplanes, thank you for your perfect info about ...108, I stored it right away.
Cheers
hihotte

[Stig Jarlevik]

Hallo again Seaplanes

Sorry about the mistake. MY problem is that there is NO reference anywhere to a Kampfgeschwader z.b.V.108.

Fritz Morzik mentions no such unit in his work
Barry Rosch mentions no such unit in his book
The home page of Michael Holm doesn't either.

Can you please elaborate what kind of unit KGzbV 108 actually was and why on earth no one seems to know what it was??? How many Gruppen did it have? When was it formed and disbanded? What happened to its units after disbandment?

Would be very interested in your source(s) as well!!

With regard to Sonderstaffel Schwildern, Mr Rosch claims it was formed in January 1940 and disbanded in June that same year. No mentioning from where it came (or went). Any idea if this unit became something else?

Cheers
Stig

[Adam]

Thanks everyone for the answers everyone

@Hihotte: Where did the pictures come from?

@Stig: KGzbV 108 was a seaplane unit set up for Weserubung. It had a Stab and three gruppen numbering 8 Staffeln altogether. 8./108 had Ju 52 See while the remaining Staffeln had He 59 aircraft sourced mostly from the vrious K.Fl.Gruppen. With German forces cut off in Narvik a 9 Staffel was created, IIRC.

Other aircraft used included Do 24 and 26, and Bv 138

Some references to ops can be found in Claasen's 'Hitler's Northern War' and Shores' 'Fledgling Eagles'

regards

Adam

[Stig Jarlevik]

Hi Adom

Sorry, but Shores makes the same mistake as I do. He refers inside his book (not the index) to KGrzbV 108. His index states KGzbV 108, but so it does with each and every one of the other KGrzbV units as well.

I don't have the other book you mention, but it can hardly be classified as a primary source either.

Shores lists the number of aeroplanes used during Weserübung by the unit and it seems unlikely that 8 staffeln should use only 37 aeroplanes. That number corrsponds much more to a Gruppe strength.

All secondary sources I have ONLY list a KGrzbV 108 formed in 1940. NO KGzbv is listed anywhere.

To get to the bottom of all this, I would VERY much like to know the primary sources that lists this KGzbv 108, when each unit was formed and what happened to it. I would also like to know its relation ship (if any) with KGrzbV 108. The latter unit is what ALL my secondary sources lists

Cheers
Stig

[Pieter H]

Rosch "Luftwaffe Codings and Markings" clearly states that KGrzbV108 was formed 3-40, with a Stab and 4 Staffeln, coding 7U and Staffel codes B-H-K-L-M respectively. They were all disbanded in May 43.

But there is the remark, confirming the statements in above postings, that during Weserubung it was increased to full Geschwader strength with 3 Gruppen, almost certainly by taking planes from different other units.

Furthermore, in his listing of aircraft codes Rosch mentions many aircraft coded 7U+xx, but all of these are Ju-52's. Clearly the He-59's that were lost by the Staffel Schwilden at Rotterdam (at least 4) are not included.

Now the question I have is whether anybody knows what the codings were of the He-59's of the Staffel Schwilden. There are quite some pictures of the He-59's landing on the river Maas/Meuse in Rotterdam, but on none I can discern any aircraft coding.
So were they using

• the formal code of 3./KGrzbV108, 7U+xL
• the codes of their original units if they were not part of the core of KGrzbV108
• their Stammkenzeichen

and what were these codes?
Any input would be welcome!

Pieter

[Seaplanes]

The Kampfgeschwader z.b.V. 108 was a part of the large transport force created for the invasion of Norway on 9 April 1940. The Geschwader Kommodore was Oberst Ernst-August Roth who received the title Transportchef See for the duration of the invasion. The formation of the Geschwader was ordered in March 1940, but the aircraft were not transferred to their operational bases until shortly before 9 April, due to security. On the eve of 8 April, the units were distributed as follows:
I. Gruppe/K.G.z.b.V. 108: Gruppenkommandeur Major Lessing with Staffeln 1./108 and 2./108 with He 59, and 8./108 with Ju 52 floatplanes in Norderney.
II. Gruppe/K.G.z.b.V. 108: Gruppenkommandeur Major Kaiser with Staffeln 4./108 and 7./108 both with He 59 in List.
III./K.G.z.b.V. 108: Gruppenkommandeur not known, with Staffeln 5./108 and 6./108, both with He 59.

The Staffel 9./108 was ordered formed on 11 April 1940 as a result of the developments of the fighting in the Narvik area. This Staffel was equipped with all available long range flying boats and floatplanes.

As you can see the Staffel 3./108 is missing. This is the Staffel that on 14 March 1940 was reformed as Sonderstaffel Schwilden and placed under the command of the 7. Fligerdivision for the attack on Rotterdam on 10 May. The following aircraft were destroyed or severly damaged during the Rotterdam operation: Heinkel He 59D W.Nr. 1830, 1995, 2593 and 2599. They were all written off. The remaining 8 He 59s returned after the operation, all of them with various degrees of damage from ground fire.
The Staffel Schwilden was disbanded on 12 May 1940, and the aircraft returned to Höhere Fliegerausbildungskommando 2 for distribution to training establishments.

So to the Kampfgruppe z.b.V. 108. The aircraft of this unit flew with Stammkennzeichen (four letter codes) only until the spring of 1942 when the unit was assigned the Verbandkennzeichen 7U+. In May 1943 the K.Gr.z.b.V. 108 was renumbered Transportfliegergruppe 20. This designation lasted until the end of the war and the Verbandkennzeichen 7U+ was also used to the end.

All the information in this and the other posts made are from original Luftwaffe and Kriegsmarine records available at the Bundesarchiv-Militärarchiv in Freiburg.