Luftwaffe Liberator Claims in the M E in 1942

[Alex Smart]

Hi,
Just what were the aircraft that were shot down by the Luftwaffe and claimed as B24 Liberators in the M E in 1942 ?

From Woods lists -
3/4-5-42 - 1

12-6-42 - 1
15-6-42 - 1

7-7-42 - 1
9-7-42 - 1

21-8-42 - 1
29-8-42 - 1

7-9-42 - 1
16-9-42 - 1

4-11-42 - 2
15-11-42 - 3

14-12-42 - 1

Total Claims 15

RAF and USAAF losses in the M E in 1942 according to BL in the ME & Med vol 1
and 8th & 9th AAF losses v 1 are
For the above dates -

3/4-5-42 - AL511 (RAF) Shot down.

12-6-42 - ?
15-6-42 - AL553 crash landed on return ? non combat loss(RAF)

7-7-42 - ?
9-7-42 - ?

21-8-42 - ?
29-8-42 - ?

7-9-42 - ?
16-9-42 - 41-11883 reduced to salvage after non battle damage (USAAF)

4-11-42 - ?
4-11-42 - ?
15-11-42 - ?
15-11-42 - ?
15-11-42 - ?

14-12-42 - ?

From the BL book there were other losses but not linked to the above dates.
From the 8th & 9th AAF losses book there are others also as above.

Such as

29/30-6-42 - B24 HALPRO (USAAF) Shot down by Flack.Capt. F. E. Nestor.

2-7-42 - AL552 (RAF) Training, crash landing.
3-7-42 - AL542 (RAF) U/c collapsed on landing.
*9/10-7-42 - B24 HALPRO (USAAF) Shot down by 109's.(41-11600 ?) Capt. K.W. Butler.
13/14-7-42 - B24 HALPRO (USAAF) S/D by Flak.(41-11618 ?)1Lt. C.O. Brown.
*15-7-42 - AL566 (RAF) S/D by fighters over target.
18/19-7-42 - AL554 (RAF) out of fuel force landed.
23-7-42 - AL534 (RAF) FTR most of crew pow.
23/24-7-42 - B24 41-11615 (USAAF) Capt. C. Fountain, out of fuel crew bailed over base.
31-7-42 AL553 (RAF) soc this date.

1-8-42 - B24 (USAAF) 41-11601 2Lt. H.N. Sturkie, undershot landing , crashed.
6/7-8-42 - AL580(RAF) U/c collapsed on landing.
19-8-42 - AL509 (RAF) Taxiing accident.
24-8-42 AL537 (RAF) Hit by Flack.

16-9-42 - B24 41-11883 (USAAF) 345th Bomb Sqdn, reduced to salvage non battle damage.

6-10-42 - B24 (USAAF) ?????Lt.White & crew bailed 1st mission .
11/12-10-42 - AL603 (RAF) U/c collapsed on landing. DBR.
27/28-10-42 - AL548 (RAF) Shot down. Flack ?

15-12-42 - AL513 (RAF) out of fuel in bad weather.Force landed, interned.
30-12-42 - AL520 (RAF) Hit hill en route India.

8th AAF
9-9-42 - 41-23713 Lost F/Flt Gander /Scotland.
9-10-42 - 41-23678 Shot down Lille.
29-10-42 41-23712 Crashed Somerset.
7-11-42 - 41-23710 Crashed Exeter.
8-11-42 - 41-23723 Landing accident.
18-11-42 - 41-23745 C/l Little Stukely.
24-11-42 - Lost Gander/Scotland.
2-12-42 - 41-23674 Taxiing acca/c repaired.
6-12-42 - 41-23786 Shot down a/c ditched.
7-12-42 - 41-23707 Cr into mountain Tafaroui.
12-12-42 - 41-23744 T%/O acc Oran,Algeria.
13-12-42 - 41-23909 Landing acc Bone, Algeria.
21-12-42 - 41-24010 Lost after Trinidad.

Other HALPRO a/c lost in June 42 were
41-11609;41-11622;41-11597;41-11596 all interned in Turkey.While 41-11629 was lost on her 1st mission on the 6-6-42.
AND
41-11592;41-11794 (c/l at forward base 9-8-42);41-11766( crew bailed 4 of 10 killed 9-8-42);41-11624 and 41-11625 were all condemned in late 42.

So what did the Luftwaffe shoot down on the dates given in the first part above ?
AND
Have I missed any out ?

Alex

[NickM]

Alex:

It would appear that your message got cut off as you posted;

NickM

[Alex Smart]

Hello Nick,

Always is when I finnish and post it is usiualy out of time and lost so have to start all over again. so now I do it in small parts and use edit to do my post .Also have to log in again each time.
Alex

[robert]

Hi Alex,


09.09.42 - B-24 Halpro 41-11600 Eager Beaver s/d by 1/JG27.


Regards

Robert

[Alex Smart]

Hello Robert,

Thanks for responce but isn't it the 9th July ?
is your date a typo error ?

Alex

[robert]

Yes, my fingers were too fast. BTW I have on the 15.06.40 B-24 from the 160 RAF sqn. s/d by Bf109. Perhaps your B-24 from 15.07 marked with red star is typo error?

Robert

[robert]

Hi Alex,


I have also following US losses:

4124376 Arthur M. Hughes 341 BS 97 BG 20.11.42
Maison Blanche destroyed B-17 4124374 Maher, Robert E 353 301 28.11.43
Med. lost B-17 4124363 John B. Bruce 32 301 28.11.43
bizerta lost B-17 4124369
32 301 05.12.42
Biskra crashed B-17 425715 John Nichols 342 97 18.12.42
Bizerta/sidi Ahmed CL B-17 4124442
342 97 23.12.42
Tafaraoui AF destroyed B-17 4124413 Thomas H. Borders 414 97 26.12.42
bizerta lost B-17 4124532 Lawrence 414 97 26.12.42
Tunisia lost B-17
Regards

Robert

[Alex Smart]

Hello,

Thank you for your reply Robert.

Have checked the 15-7-42 and it is OK , a 159 Sqn a/c serial AL566.

Your 15-6-42 loss could it be also a 159 Sqn a/c serial possibly AL553 that made a crash landing at Fayid on return from ops, a convoy patrol. this is thought to be the a/c AL553 that was soc on the 31-7-42.

Please,this is a question only about the B24 Liberator losses in the M E & Med in 1942.

The Luftwaffe Claims that were made , said to be B24 Liberators.

And if so then if there were NO B24 Liberator Losses on those days then what did the Luftwaffe pilots shoot down ?

Thanks

Alex

Alex

[Alex Smart]

Hi Robert,

Re 41-24376 was a B17

I have
From Heavy Bombers of the Mighty Eighth

Under listing for the 92nd BG
21/06/42 AI 19/08/42 AOS 00/06/42 G 00/08/42 97BG.

And

Under the listing for the 97th BG
21/06/42 AI 19/08/42 AOS 00/08/42 G 92 BG 15/11/42 MTO.

AI= Added to inventory
AOS=A/c arrived or asigned overseas
G= Gained

AND from Fortresses of the Big Triangle first
Orig of 92 BG. To 97 BG 341 BS. To 12 AF.Departed Predannack 15th Nov 42.

What was cause of loss please?

Alex

[robert]

Hi Alex,

thanks for your data.
According to the book "Pride of Seattle":

41-24376 ...During the evening of 20 November 1942, Hughes was taxiing the aircraft across the field with a full bomb load when German bombers attacked the base. The B-17 was hit by a bomb a blown to pieces. There were nosurvivors.

Robert