more 355FG 'connections' 16/3/44-45/04/04

[drgondog]

Thanks to Tony Wood's/les Butler data bases ond other sources I think I'm making progress on 355/Luftwaffe encounters. Looking for confirmation from other knowledgable gentlemen on LEMB

1. Looking for match on 4 April 45 near Ludwiglust - records shown Heinz Bar with a 51 claim from Stab III/JG2 but no location. Whoever got this particular 51 was flying an Fw 190D.

2. Have a reference to Uffz Probst JG3 ramming? a 357FS P-51B with a 109 near Hildescheim on 16 August 44. Does this match up? Did JG3 take heavy losses on this day in this area?

3. Have a reference to Karcher of 1/JG3 shooting down a 51 on 6 aug 44. Who was LOST in JG3 in this encounter

4. the 358FS lost two on 8 April 44, one between Ulm and Gunsburg and one Ulm/Augsburg? which LW org had the claims?

5. 358FS lost one near Gottingen on 19 April 44. Which LW units in that area?

6. which LW units engage near Brunswick on 29 March 44?

7 . Have reference to LW scores against 357FS that match up to 11/JG 27.. which LW (Me 109) unit(s) took a heavy pounding by escort fighters surrounding Munich on 24 April 44?

8. 354FS Neal dove into ground on 29 April 44. Fw 190 crashed nearby - both around Rathenow. LW unit loss there?

9. Which LW unit scored on two 354FS 51's near Zerbst and Buhlendorf on 28 May 44?

10. Which LW units lost 109's on 28 July 44 near Mulhausen?

11. Which LW unit engaged 51's near Neuweiler on 3 August 44? and who (LW) was lost in that area?

12. Which LW units engaed a made a claim for a 51 near Eberswolde (N Berlin) on 12 Sep 1944. This is a possible Friendly Fire loss but trying to match with a LW claim

13. Which LW units engaged B-24's and 51's 11 Sep 44, between Kassel and Marburg?

Thank you once again - BTW is there a LW LOSS data base?

Bill Marshall

[kaki3152]

Bill,

The April 4, 1945 encounter between Fw-190Ds and the 355 th FG was the topic of an old Post on 12 TOCH. The German unit was JGr-10 (Jadggruppe 10) and the unit was engaged in "Platzschutz" (airfield defense) while flying with I/JG-301. This information is from a German researcher. Christian Stopsack. Two Luftwaffe pilots were lost, Ofhr. Kaser and Uffz Janka

Carlos

[drgondog]

Thank you Carlos..one of the 355 pilots scoring over the airfield was recently deceased test pilot Al White. The 354FS lost two to JGr - one to a head on pass and the other following a 190D in a split ess and crashing..plus another one to flak - not one of 354FS best days..

Regards,

Bill

[drgondog]

Looks like Florian of 4/JG3 might have been the shooter on 19 April near Gottingen and either 10 or 11/JG27 near Munich, and 3/JG1 on 8 March.

Did 3/JG1 fly 190's? Possibly this uinit near Steinhuder Lake at low altitude.

I've narrowed the January 29, 1944 victors to either JG2 or JG26 in the Koblenz/Limburg general area.

Thanks again

Bill

[John Beaman]

Originally Posted by drgondog

Looks like Florian of 4/JG3 might have been the shooter on 19 April near Gottingen and either 10 or 11/JG27 near Munich, and 3/JG1 on 8 March.

Did 3/JG1 fly 190's? Possibly this uinit near Steinhuder Lake at low altitude.

I've narrowed the January 29, 1944 victors to either JG2 or JG26 in the Koblenz/Limburg general area.

Thanks again

Bill

JG 27 always flews Bf 109s. 3./JG 1 in April '45 was flying 190A-8s and 9s

[drgondog]

John - thx for the feedback

What was 1/JG3 flying April 1944? The only 1945 action in which the 355 lost a pilot was the one Carlos identified earlier for Ludwiglust to JGR-10 with 190D's.

Thanks to this forum I (we) have been able to connect most of the 'dots' between the adversary units - which I will incorporate in ABD II.

Regards and thanks

Bill

[Erich]

Bill :

I./JG 3 went over to flying high protection flights for bomber destroying Fw 190's as well as twin engine detroyers from the ZG units. If not required to provide this high cover on operations then yes they would attack the bomber formations. In April of 1944, I./JG 3 was being equipped with the better performing Bf 109G-6/AS aircraft

E ~

[Richard Goyat]

Hi Bill,

If I recall correctly, I already gave you some of the information you are looking for (maybe on another forum). However I’ll try to add a few details and a couple of new answers for 28 July, 3 August, 6 August, and 16 August 1944. Things for 11 September and 12 September 1944 are slightly more complex, so I’ll answer a little later.

a) 28 July 1944. The Luftwaffe wasn’t up in force that day. Units known to have been ordered up were I./JG 300 (Bf 109s), II./JG 300 (Fw 190s), II./JG 27 (Bf 109s) and I./JG 302 (Bf 109s). However, these two latter units were ordered to alter course to the South, so that only I. and II./JG 300 flew on North, engaging combat in the Naumburg area (South of Merseburg) at about 10:05-10:15. This links with the 358th FS claims, but I can’t identify the 109 claimed by Capt. Marshall half an hour earlier and 90 km to the west of Naumburg.

b) 3 August 1944. In an afternoon mission, five out of eleven Bf 109s of I./JG 300 escorting Fw 190s of IV.(Sturm)/JG 3 clashed with P-51s at about 15:30-15:40 near Tübingen (South-West of Stuttgart), while III./JG 53 saw combat against P-51s in the Pforzheim area at about 15:00. III./JG 53 lost two Bf 109s destroyed and a third damaged in a belly landing. I./JG 300 losses that day were two Bf 109s destroyed in aerial combat and two more damaged during a combat sortie (that is not necessarily by enemy fire) while known IV./JG 3 losses were ten Fw 190s destroyed and one damaged. Note however that both I./JG 300 and IV./JG 3 flew two missions that day and that several of the aforementioned losses were suffered during the morning fight. The precise breakdown between the morning and afternoon losses isn’t known with certainty (at least to me). The names of the Geman pilots lost are mentioned in the following books:

— “Pik-As”, Geschichte des Jagdgeschwaders 53, Teil 3 (Das Ende in Italien 1944, Rumänien-Ungarn 1944/1945, Einsatz zur Verteidigung des Reiches 1943-1944); Jochen Prien, Struve's Buchdruckerei und Verlag, Eutin, 1991.

— Jagdgeschwader 300 “Wilde Sau”, A Chronicle of a Fighter Geschwader in the Battle for Germany, Volume 1, June 1943-September 1944, Jean-Yves Lorant & Richard Goyat, Eagle Editions, 2005.

— IV./Jagdgeschwader 3, 1943-1945, Jochen Prien, Struve's Buchdruckerei und Verlag, Eutin, 1996

c) 6 August 1944. 355th FG most probably encountered the Bf 109s of I./JG 3. Lt. Folger was almost certainly shot down by Uffz. Richard Kärcher of 1./JG 3, while the German Gruppe lost four Bf 109 G-6/AS in aerial combat (all pilots killed). Their names are mentioned in the book:

— Messerschmitt Bf 109 im Einsatz bei Stab und I./Jagdgeschwader 3, Jochen Prien und Gerhard Stemmer, Struve's Buchdruckerei und Verlag, Eutin, 1997.

d) 16 August 1944. Yes, Uffz. Probst of 2./JG 3 rammed Lt. Riggs’ P-51. Uffz. Probst apparently survived the collision unhurt. He was flying a Bf 109 G-6/AS. I./JG 3 losses that day were 6 Bf 109s destroyed in aerial combat and two damaged (one in aerial combat). Four pilots were killed and one wounded (this latter was Richard Kärcher...). For more details and the names of the killed pilots, see:

— Messerschmitt Bf 109 im Einsatz bei Stab und I./Jagdgeschwader 3, Jochen Prien und Gerhard Stemmer, Struve's Buchdruckerei und Verlag, Eutin, 1997.

Sincerely

Richard Goyat

[drgondog]

Richard - Thank you (again). Yes you did answer several of these in a previous email and helped answer some more in this one.

The encounter report of my father on 28 July indicated that he picked up the 109 out of a flight of 4 coming off the target at Mulhausen who attacked a flight of B-24's - chased him - getting strikes and a/c appeared out of control, striking ground under a cloud deck...witnessed by his wingman Hauver and his #3 Bradley

time recorded~0930

The 6 August fight was in two separate areas for 354FS and 357FS. My father was leading the 354Fs when they got a call for help by Blue Flight at 15,000ft. 20 miles south of Hamburg. He dove into a Lufberry in which Al White (future B-70 Test pilot) was in a turn with another 109... opened fire on the 109 which broke for the deck - describing a difficult chase to 2000 feet whereupon the 109 pilot rolled over on his back in a split S. He (dad) dropped 10 degree flaps, followed him and was setting up for a no deflection shot when the 109 went into the ground and blew up... a little while later Martin got another 109 whose pilot bailed at 1000 feet.... so these several encounters were near

time ~1530. I am interested in the possible identity of this one as he was described as 'skillful'. From Eric the JG3 pilots lost in this probable encounter were unteroffizers Strolen, Wunsch, Gunther, and Wieland...

Once again Richard, thank you

Bill

[John Beaman]

Originally Posted by Erich

Bill :

I./JG 3 went over to flying high protection flights for bomber destroying Fw 190's as well as twin engine detroyers from the ZG units. If not required to provide this high cover on operations then yes they would attack the bomber formations. In April of 1944, I./JG 3 was being equipped with the better performing Bf 109G-6/AS aircraft

E ~

Hi Erich:

The losses I have for 1./JG 3 in April 1944 are listed as G-6s. The first G-6/AS losses for the unit are not listed until August. What sources are you using regarding the unit have AS machines in April?

Looking at the range of WNrs lost, it is possible that some were AS conversions but simply not listed that way.

Thanks

John