IDENTIFICATION

[*BRUNO*]

HI! all
Could someone say something about this Do 17 crash landed somewhere
in France in 39-40 -this personal photo was taken by a french aircraft mecano -
http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o...17crashnq9.jpg

thanks
BRUNO

[John Beaman]

Would this not be from 3.(F)22 ?

[Peter Cornwell]

The only incident I have documented that seems to relate occurred on 2 March 1940:

1.(F)/22 Dornier Do17P. Engaged by S/Lt Martin and Adj Le Gloan of GC III/6 during photo-reconnaissance sortie between Achen and Wingen 10.30 a.m. and brought down at Ferme Sainte-Marie, south-east of Bouzonville. Lt K-W. Barchfeld, Fw W. Will, and Obergefr F. Jabubeck captured. Aircraft a write-off.

If anyone can confirm, or identify otherwise, I would be most grateful. Thanks.

[Stéphane Lehuédé]

Hi

According to several French magazines (Batailles aériennes n° 3, Aéro Journal n° 26 & Avions n° 80), the Do 17P brought down by Adj Le Gloan & S/Lt Martin was 6M+AM from 4.(F)/11. In "Les Aiglons", the Do 17P was from 1.(F)/22, but there's a photograph of the tail, coded 6M+?? .

[John Beaman]

Peter:

What is the source of your information?

Thanks

John

[Peter Cornwell]

Stéphane,

I believe that the photograph you mention actually shows the following brought down on 1 April 1940:

4.(F)/11 Dornier Do17P (4033). Intercepted by Lt Cormouls and Adjt Blanchard of ECMJ 1/16 during photo-reconnaissance sortie and attacked between Rocroi and Flize. Then engaged over Signy forest by Adjt Renaudie and Sgt de La Gasnerie of GC II/2 and finally crashed into woods at ‘La Fourche au Bouleau’, near Mézières 12.10 p.m. Two crewmen killed, Uffz H-G. Altmann believed captured. Aircraft 6M+EM a write-off.

6M was the code for FernAufklGr.11 while 4N was that for FernAufklGr.22. I guess the sources you mention simply duplicated the original error possibly in ‘Les Aiglons’.

John,

The source of my information is personal research in course of preparation of my forthcoming book The Battle of France Remembered for After The Battle Publications. However if, as I suspect, your question is intended to be more searching then (and only as it is you) I consulted the following:

1) Ob d L Gebst Gen Qu 6 Abt (1c) losses 3.3.40 (document dated 5.3.40) Gen d Lw b Ob d H (Nachtrag zum 2.3.40) entry 1.(F)/22.

2) Namentlicheverlustmeldungen for 1.(F)/22 dated 2.3.40 (WASt Berlin)

3) Victoires Homologuées à la Chasse Francaise Mars 1940 p318 in ‘Ils Étaient Là ..’ by J. & P. Martin (2001)

4) ‘Fledgling Eagles’ p176 by Christopher Shores (1991)

Thank you both for your interest.

[Stéphane Lehuédé]

OK, Peter, thanks for the precisions, very complete as usual

[John Beaman]

Thanks Peter. Pretty good sources!

[Stig Jarlevik]

Bruno, Peter and all

I agree with what you say, but it is important to ALSO state that on March 2nd, 1940 TWO Do 17P were lost.

One from 4./(F)11 was claimed by the British,which then should be 6M+AM
Another from 1.(F)22 was claimed by the French, poss 4N+KH (as per photo)

I suppose ever since the first caption of the picture 6M+xx someone in the past made the ID, Pierre Le Gloan, and that was it! Nobody bothered to check the ID all the way and thereby failed to realise that 6M was NOT the code for 1.(F)22 and the fact that this aircraft in fact was claimed by the British.

What it comes down to is TWO aircraft shot down the same day and April 1st has probably nothing to do with it at all....

Fascinating how these photos pop up out of the blue, and even more fascinating how you guys keep tracking them down...

Finally, those of us interested in the Battle of France are ALSO very much interested in the time schedule of your book Peter. Anything more you can disclose?

Cheers
Stig

[*BRUNO*]

Thanks very much for all these precisions!!
and for the time you spent to find them
I make further research about this plane with focus on Bouzonville
If I find confirmation i'll post it here

Bonsoir a tous
BRUNO