Mustang HB827

[Amrit1]

Mustang HB827 - lost due to flak and crashed in Vimoutiers on 18/08/1944.

I believe it was originally from 19 Squadron, but had been detached to 112 Squadron for a few days to support Operation Dragoon.

Does anybody know who the pilot was, and whether he survived?

Thank you
A

[SteveB]

Can you provide any more information with your question? Vimoutiers is only 40 to 50 kms SE of Caen. This was the height of the campaign against the German Army retreating from Normandy. What makes you think this a/c was detached to 112Sqn for Operation Dragoon?

Steve

[Henk Welting]

"2nd Tactical Air Force" Vol.II (Shores/Thomas):
F/O D.W. CONNOR - killed (hit by flak; hit house nr Vimoutiers).

Henk.

[Alex Smart]

Hi,

According to "Fighter Squadron" by D. Palmer
19 Sqdn
F/O. D.W. Connor.
'plane crashed into a house.

There was a second loss with 19 Sqdn on this day.
F/O. P.T.Glanville in FZ112 .Who must have survived as he is not listed in the CWGC lists online.

Alex

[Amrit1]

Thank you guys. The question as to why he ended up in Vimoutiers is a mystery. However, HB827 is listed as one of 112 Sq planes for a 4 day detachment.

http://www.mts.net/~robhd1a/planelosses.html

And from another source I found that it had been detached from 19 Squadron, as had many other aircraft for this specific four-day period, around Operation Dragoon. The only reason I can think of for it crashing in Vimoutiers was that it was trying to go cross country after being damaged, rather than risk flying back to 112's temporary base at Rosignano (about 20 miles SW of Pisa).

Cheers for your help.

[Amrit1]

Re FZ112 - thanks Alex:

43-6412 to RAF as Mustang III FZ112. Missing near Vimoutiers Aug 18, 1944

What's interesting is that it is listed as 19 Squadron aircraft, who may also been detached to 112 Sq with HB827 (as it was shot down in the same area at the same time), but was used by F/O Thorsteinn Jonsson of 65 Sq to shoot down a Me 109 on the 26/07/44. That plane got around!!

http://www.luftwaffe.no/Table1.htm

Now, what were aircraft, supposedly being used to cover Dragoon, doing so far north? I'm not sure my earlier post is right.

[Chris Thomas]

The next question is 'where did the 112 Sqn website get its serial information from?'

The answer may be 'Shark Squadron' by Robin Brown as the serials listed in Appendix F include HB827 'S', with the note that it appears in the ORB as 'FB827 probably incorrectly'. I'm sure SteveB will have something to say on this ...

What does seem highly unlikely is that a Mustang Sqn in Normandy (19, 65 etc) should lend for of its aircraft to an Italian-based unit (112) so that it could fly back to Normandy (Vimoutiers) on operations!!!
CT

[SteveB]

And here he comes now.....taraa taraa

112Sqn flew to Rossignano from Crete (in Italy) on 14/8 to take part in Op Dragoon. On 15/8 they flew escort and flak suppression to the airborne glider landings. On 16/8 they were intended to carry out the same tasks but did not successfully rendezvous with the transport a/c they returned to Crete in the evening. The sqn diary does not record any encounters with enemy activity on either day neither a/c nor flak; they suffered no losses on either day. On 18/8 112Sqn was operating around Lake Trasimeno in Central Italy. There is no record in 19Sqn diary of a detachment to 112Sqn and no record in 112Sqn diary of receiving a detachment from 19Sqn. The serial FB827 appears in the 112Sqn diary on just one day 8/7/44 and is obviously a typo probably for FB278; there is no record of HB827 flying with 112Sqn.

65 and 19Sqn were part of the same wing in France and in July and August 1944 both sqns were operating from the same ALG B.12 at Ellon. Tony Jonsson flew FZ112 when he made claims on 25/7 and 29/7. FZ112 was damaged in the combat on 29/7. In his book "Dancing in the Skies" Jonsson writes "On inspection it became clear that some time would pass before my beloved ‘B’ flew again. In addition to the wrecked cockpit there was extensive damage to the tail control surfaces and the fuselage just behind the pilot’s seat." After the a/c was repaired it was re-issued to 19Sqn and first flew with them from 7/8 until lost on 18/8. Pete Glanville evaded and returned to 19Sqn on 10/9 he flew a couple more ops but was then sent on rest.

Steve

[Amrit1]

Thanks Steve.

Your information seems to clear up the issue. I'm not sure why it's down as being detached to cover Dragoon though.

Cheers
A

[Chris Thomas]

'Dragoon' was the invasion of southern France and therefore much nearer to Italy than Normandy. In other words the Mustangs which appear to have been loaned to 112 were not - thieir 'allocation' is due to accummulated errors, starting with original docs, and then subsequent misinterpretaions.
CT