USAAF losses in June-August 1944

[keith A]

I am looking for details of these combats where JG54 claimed significant victories over their USAAF opponents. I believe the times recorded are German so they will be an hour or so out in Allied records.

10.06.44 1420hrs Over Caen 5 P-47
12.07.44 1430hrs Conches 3 P-47
23.07.44 1917hrs SW Paris 8 P-38
06.08.44 1220hrs Pontoise/NW Paris 7 B-24

regards

Keith

[Horst Weber]

Keith !

British time was equal to German time from April 4th, 1944 until September 17th, 1944.

As it was it in most periods in WW 2 since British double-summertime was most times equal with the German single-summertime

Perhaps, the french governement made changes in the times after the first euphoria following D-day.

Best wishes !

Horst Weber

[Alex Smart]

Hello Keith,

Re: 10/06/44 - 5 P47's there were in total some 31 P-47 MACR for this date ( 15 at least for the 9th AAF ) not counting accidents and not lost( down in friendly territory).
Re:12/07/44 - 3 P47's
I could only find these three -
42-25718 - O'Reagan, Michael R.
42-76373 - Koslow, Stanley L.
42-76466 - MACR 6879. Blevins, Edward P.
not counting accidents and not lost( down in friendly territory).
Re:23/07/44 - 8 P38's
I could only find the following 6 -
42-67975 - MACR 7021 - Thompson, Carleton E.
43-28411 - MACR 7022 - Gaignat, Charles A.
43-28348 - MACR 7023 - Green, Arthur L.
42-67986 - MACR 7024 - Moirs, Lloyd (NMI).
42-67456 - Burr, Marvin F. Isle of Wight.
42-67943 - Murphy, Leonard (NMI). Isle of Whight.
not counting accidents and not lost( down in friendly territory).
KU report lists give next to nil for the fighters for the above dates as far as I could find.

Good Hunting
Alex

[udf_00]

For the 23 JUL 1944, here is a link to a PDF in french :
www.limours.fr/IMG/pdf/AOUT_1944_2.pdf
14 P-38 bombed the Limours railway station, then between 19.15 & 19.28 combat with 10 Fw 190, losses 4 P-38 & 1 Fw 190.
9th USSAF 370th FG 485th FS
Carleton E. THOMPSON O-758104 P-38 42-67975
Charles A. GAIGNAT, O-26279 P38J-15-LO 43-28411
Arthur L. GREEN, O-758799 P-38 43-28348
Lloyd C. WEINS, O-759133 P-38J-10 42-67986.

[keith A]

Thanks chaps, interestingly both Koslow and O'Meagher of 510th FS are shown in my source as being involved in taxiing accidents on 12 July rather than air combat so it's not them. Could it be that JG54 got it very wrong?

[keith A]

Just found an old post by Leo that indicates the 366th FS/358th FG lost 3 P-47s on 12 July 1944 but to JG26 not JG54 and checking my copy of Caldwell's history of JG26 confirms this and that the claims of both groups were at the same time and same location.

[keith A]

Looking again at the evidence it appears the B-24s claimed by JG54 were Lancasters and Halifaxes on a daylight bombing raid. Can anyone identify the RAF squadrons?

regards

Keith

[Alex Smart]

Hello,
Thank you UDF OO for the correction re pilot of 42-67986.
I looked again at the MACR and the name Moirs(page 2) is questioned within the report and Weins (page 5) is recorded along with the service number O-759133.

Also for the change from American to RAF for the daylight raid on the 6 Aug 44.
Taken from W.R.Chorley's RAF Bomber Command Losses vol 5, pages 370/1.

6 Aug 44
50 Sqn Lancaster I W4824 "VN-Z" Op: Bois de Cassan.
T/o 0945 Skellingthorpe to raid a flying-bomb storage depot. Crashed near Pontoise in the department of Val d'Oise, where those who died rest in the towns communal cemetery.

83 Sqn Lancaster III ND930 "OL-Q" Op: Bois de Cassan.
T/o 0906 Coningsby to destroy a flying bomb storage site. Shot down by fighters in the vicinity of Pontoise ( Val d'Oise) where all rest in the towns communal cemetery.

83 Sqn Lancaster III PB140 "OL-H" Op: Bois de Cassan.
T/o 0908 Coningsby similarly tasked. Leaving the target area, engaged in running battle with an Fw190 whose repeated attacks inflicted serious damage to the engines, control surfaces and rear turret, wounding P/O Duggin (RAAF) and starting a fire. In the confusion some of the crew baled out. W/O Lester (RAAF) is commemorated on panel 259 of the Runnymede Memorial. Onreaching the south coast Lancaster crash landed 1415 at Ford airfield, Sussex.

93 Sqn Lancaster III ND840 "OF-J" Op: Bois de Cassan.
T/o 0918 Coningsby similarly tasked. Hit by flak which incapacitated F/O Bucknell (RAAF) and crashed at Eaubonne ( Val d'Oise), a small town roughly 14Km ESE of Pontoise. Those who died now lie in Clichy New Communal Cemetery.

From The Bomber Command Bomber Command War Diaries by Middlebrook & Everitt
Page 556
6 August 1944 Flying Bomb Supply Sites
222 aircraft - 107 Lancasters, 105 Halifaxes, 10 Mosquitoes of 4,5 & 8 Groups attacked the Bois de Cassan and Forét de Nieppe sites. 1 Lightning accompanied the Bois de Cassan operation.
Not helpful for us as it does not make clear if this was an AAF Lightning or one of the few used by the RAF, or what happened to it ?

Alex

[keith A]

Excellent, thanks Alex. I suppose the pilots of III.JG54 weren't used to seeing British 4-engiine bombers and the Halifax and Lancaster tails look a bit like B-24' Apparently several bombers were also heavily damaged, but it does seem like the LW fighter pilots had a bit of a feeding frenzy and imagined they'd done a lot more damage than is evident from RAF records.

[DavidIsby]

This may have been the first daylight battle between Luftwaffe single-engine fighters and RAF four-engine heavy bombers since 1942.

ADI(K) Report No. 109/1945: Attack on RAF Day Bombers: 12th December 1944, 19 February 1945 [US National Archives RG 165 Entry 79 Box 21] stated that the 12 December events were the first such daylight combat involving Bf 109s and RAF heavy bombers since 1942.