JG/Gruppe Stab Flight Personnel Selection? - Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum

Rob Romero · #1 25th August 2007, 01:05

What was the criteria for selecting the 'Stab Flight' personnel in JGs and Gruppes. Were these the selections of the JG Kommodore or Gruppe Kommandeur? Did newly appointed commanders, ever ‘clean house’ and replace established personnel with their hand picked choices. Is it safe to say that most Stab-personnel were selected for their fighting abilities (aces to serve as 2nd Rotte leaders in the Stab) or abilities as wingmen? Were any selected largely because they were ‘tight’ with the CO? Or were most selected because of their leadership/administrative abilities to serve in the capacities as Adjutants and Technical Officers, etc? Also, was there a difference in the selection process for Geschwader vs. Gruppe Stabs?

Thanks as always,

Rob Romero

P.S. An unrelated question -Fighters numbered ‘1 +’ nominally denoted Staffel/Squadron leaders –how closely was this held to –and did this tendency decline as the war progressed?

WEISNER · #2 25th August 2007, 07:15

Heck of a good question Rob, No answer from me on the first part but I look foward to some opinions. On the second part the Staffel/Squadron leaders were, during later war time put in numbers higher to hide them from big gun hunters. Heinz Bär being a good example with 13 as a number, I read somwhere that staffel/Squadron leaders were using numbers from 10 up to 15? for this reason. typically 10,11,12,13 etc so as to be identified by underlings in the air, however not having a big shiney 1 on the bird telling all allied Pilots this is a Big shot worthy of bragging rights if scored.....I am not sure if this was ordered of suggested by higher ups?
I will see if I can find the scource I read it in?
Perhaps Mr Barry Rosch or another expert could chime in and fill us in on the proper answer? and I am off to his book to unt for clues?
Kevin

Laurent Rizzotti · #3 25th August 2007, 11:14

From what I read, it was current for a Kommodore or a Gruppe Kommandeur to integrate its usual wingman to his Stab (for example when a Gruppe Kommandeur was promoted to lead the whole Geschwader), or to take in it pilots or officers he wanted to evaluate...

I don't think that transfer to the Stab was considered as a promotion. But it was certainly the sign that the commander of the unit had an eye on you, and wanted you on his side at least for some time. Officers integrated in the Stab often then took command of part of the units (Gruppe or Staffel) when opportunity arose.

John Vasco · #4 25th August 2007, 12:05

Rob,

A couple of replies.

1. Otto Hintze, Staka of 3./Erpr. Gr. 210 always flew 'Yellow 1' unless it was in for servicing, as happened on 29/10/40 when its engine was up for a service and he flew 'Yellow 6', and was shot down into captivity.

2. I can only speak for a Bf 110 scenario, but when Obst. Vollbracht moved from the Gruppenstab of II./ZG 26 to take up command of ZG 2, he took Oblt. Schaefer with him to be his Geschwaderadjutant. Schaefer was shot down in Vollbracht's 3M+AA on 4th September 1940, after ditching his own Bf 110 in the Channel in mid-August.

Rob Romero · #5 25th August 2007, 14:57

Thanks, guys.

Weisner -I had suspected the use of 1 declined as the war progressed, but I think the use of numbers greater than 10 to be a pointless over reaction. Very difficult to pic out a particular pilot in a dogfight and a person isn't going to accept or decline an opportunity for a victory based on how the enemy was marked. If you managed to end up behind an opponent, you would simply try to bring them down -be it rookie or top ace.

Rob