Loss from Berlin raid. 30 Mar '43

[Frasera]

Some help please, guys. From the German claims record a Stirling (?) was brought down as below:
30.03.43 Ltn. Werner Rapp 7./NJG 1 Stirling £ 2-4 km. E.S.E. Flgpl. Marham: 4.300 m. 04.49 Film C. 2031/II Anerk: Nr.70
Text from a correspondent......
"The position coincides (with) where the wreckage was found.
This was the only Stirling reported lost that night (a raid on Berlin)
Is it possible for you to determine the serial number of this aircraft, which may have some similarity to BK710...............The reason I am asking is that I do not wish to sprinkle my mother's ashes in the wrong place."
This enquiry deals with Stirling BK710, which has (possibly) been found in Holland.
TIA
Alan Fraser
http://www.mildenhallregister.stirlingpilot.org.uk

[Icare9]

Alan, are you quite certain that only ONE Stirling was lost on the night 29/30 March 1943?
The RAF Bomber Command Campaign Diary entry reads as follows:-
29/30 March 1943 Berlin
Berlin attacked by unsuccessfully by 329 aircraft - 162 Lancasters, 103 Halifaxes, 64 Stirlings. Weather conditions were difficult, with icing and inaccurately forecast winds causing most of the bombs to fall in open countryside 6 miles south-east of Berlin. 21 aircraft - 11 Lancasters, 7 Halifaxes, 3 Stirlings - lost, 6.4 per cent of the force.

I do hope you are right, but you are right to double check.
I have not read that a Stirling wreck has been found recently, and I understand why you do not give a location.

I do hope that an expert Pal can clarify for you.
What is the policy for scattering loved ones ashes at Runnymede? Is it permitted at all?

[mhuxt]

Surely the location given for the German claim in the first post is near RAF Marham, not over Holland? Anyway, one Stirling apparently was lost in a collision over the U.K., another near Berlin, another near Holland.

Is the date wrong? BK710 was lost on 25/26 May. The Stirling lost near Holland on the Berlin raid was BK716.

[Frasera]

Thanks for the replies guys.
You are right, it was 25/6th May, '43 shot down. (Looked in Bowyers book and took TOC date ...Doh!) I have been working on the info from relatives. They have tried all sorts to get assistance with the dives/recovery but the UK Govmt seems very less than interested. FYI the dives videos are at
www.youtube.com/watch?v=LcuZ4L7Hkvo&feature=fvw and the panel number was (Thought?) to be BK710 ... very close to BK716? ... but the dates are wrong. Hmmm!

I have the claim for what we think could have been BK710 as follows:
26.05.43 Uffz. Georg Kraft 12./NJG 1 Stirling 44/5/8: 800 m. 03.04 Film C. 2031/II Anerk: Nr.167
There was a strong NW wind that evening (25/26 May 1943), and although reports indicate the aircraft was attacked 80 km NW of Texel, it would appear that to avoid heading into the wind with one engine down and/or ditching in a rough sea, the aircraft turned to attempt to crash land in Holland, and finished up where it was found, a few miles SE of Marken.

The reason for asking about alternatives is to try to verify this wreck is, indeed BK 710. Any comments? Apologies for the length of this post; trying to get it right!

Thanx for the info; any more would be most helpful.

Alan Fraser
http://www.stirlingpilot.org.uk
http://www.mildenhallregister.stirlingpilot.org.uk

[mhuxt]

One of the crew was apparently recovered off Heligoland a month later - can the currents go from A to B in this case?

[Icare9]

If we are talking about the ashes of a relative of one of the crew of BK710, then we were too late with helpful info to help confirm (or not) that it was BK710 before the 25th/26th May anniversary.

As we haven't been able to discover any link with BK710 to wreckage, what is Plan B then for these ashes? Can they be scattered at Runnymede as that's the best location available so far....

The rear gunner, Sgt Percival, is now buried in Hamburg Cemetery, which seems to indicate a ditching "somewhere" as per mhuxt's post above.... What happens next?

[Frasera]

Many thanks for the help .... and it gets even more strange. The aircraft discovered was ID'd as BK710 .... but the location leads me to beleive it is BK716, the aircraft you guys alluded to! As the Nav's son is in the UK to scatter his Mother's ashes, I have suggested Runnymede or the 149Sqn church at Methwold as a "safe" alternative. Need also to contact Smudge Smith ... he may be able to help. Any ideas? TIA

Alan F
http://www.stirlingpilot.org.uk
http://www.mildenhallregister.stirlingpilot.org.uk

[Frasera]

The idea of the ashes scattering was to do it on the 25/26th June, due to logistics, but thanks for the thought. Another piece of the puzzle is that an artifact has been discovered in the Dutch wreck .... A 4" cutout of an Elephant ..... connection to 75 Sqn? I do not know. Still, it appears that the rescue team have the wrong aircraft. I will keep chasing Thanks.

[mhuxt]

The Harwich - Esbjerg and Harwich - Cuxhaven ferries pass close by the area where the missing crews from that night appear to have been lost. Not sure of the regs though.

[Frasera]

Thanks, I will pass that on as another Alt.
A