Me109G-10 Cargo Hatch - what is the box for?

[harrison987]

Hi guys,

The G-10 series had a cargo/baggage hatch behind the pilot, which did not sit flush as those on any other 109 series aircraft - It had a box which stuck out.

My understanding was that due to the installation the MW50 tank, along with the Compressed air bottles for the 30mm MK108, there was no longer sufficient room in the fuselage for the ZBK241...so it was moved upwards.

Basically, the equipment on the interior of the fuselage had to be re-worked...

Can anyone confirm this?

The shape seems really odd for a ZBK241 (which is flat and rectangular), as opposed to this "square" in shape.

JaPo's book states it housed an "accumulator"...which I have no knowledge of.

Thoughts?

[George Hopp]

JaPo's book states it housed an "accumulator"...which I have no knowledge of.

"Accumulator" is the British English word for battery. It was moved forward because of the positioning of the MW 50 tank behind the main fuel tank, which moved the CofG rearwards.

[harrison987]

okay...so...which battery was it?

The ZBK241 was the main battery box for the weapons system...so is that what was in this space?

Or am I missing something?



mike

[George Hopp]

okay...so...which battery was it?

The ZBK241 was the main battery box for the weapons system...so is that what was in this space?

Or am I missing something?

The battery I mentioned is the main aircraft battery and the only power source in the aircraft. Sadly, I see no reference to the ZBK 241 in the Bf 109G armament handbooks. All aircraft services would be powered by the electrical system powered by ground power on the ground, and by the a/c battery once the ground power is removed.

What reference have you that shows this ZBK 241?

[Nick Beale]

Originally Posted by George Hopp

"Accumulator" is the British English word for battery. It was moved forward because of the positioning of the MW 50 tank behind the main fuel tank, which moved the CofG rearwards.

"Accumulator" is not heard so much these days but it was/is usually used to describe a lead/acid battery (as in cars). Not something you'd want perched just behind your head, one might think.

[George Hopp]

As you say, Nick: having a lead-acid directly behind his head would not be a happy thought for a pilot, whether in combat or preparing for a forced-landing. That was the problem with the 109, there was little room to install extra equipment without moving other equipment around to accomodate it. In my estimation, the placing of the battery directly behind the pilot is a clear indication of just how desperate the engineers were becoming in trying to keep the 109 flying and fighting.

[harrison987]

Hi George!

Okay...

This is what does not make sense.

The G6 and G-14 were already be produced with the MW50, yet none had the Battery moved to this cargo hatch position.

Even in the K series, the battery was moved only 1 section forward (from section 5 to section 4).

The 1944 G manual shows the ZBK241 at the first aid hatch, along with the compass. When the MW50 and pressure bottles for the Mk108 took up more space in the fuselage, everything was shifted around (Mutterkompass went to rear of aircraft in section 7, battery to section 4).

The K manual shows the ZBK241 in this cargo hatch area, and as the G-10 was designed to be as close to the K as possible, it would make sense it too was also in this position (?)

It does not make sense to move the battery to this cargo hatch position ONLY for the G-10/U4...no other aircraft had it there.

I spoke with a few people who have recovered remains of various G-10's, and they do not recall ever finding a battery in this position. They all confirmed it as being ZBK241.

Moving the battery from section 5 to the cockpit area, is a HUGE jump, as compared to only moving it 1 section in the K. And the weight difference was not much between the K and G-10...

So I guess this is where the confusion is...

Hmmmm...

[George Hopp]

The 109 G-14 captured by the Brits in July 1944 was the first a/c to have been found to have the battery mounted directly behind the pilot. It was also the first series G-type a/c to be carry the MW-50 tank.

The 109K a/c was a redesigned a/c, which had the radios and other equipment moved as far forward as they could be, and so Mtt could move the battery back to the forward part of the rear fuselage. This is evidenced by the forward movement of the radio access panel.

And no, the 109 G-10 was not designed to be like a 109K, it was designed to be a 109G.

[harrison987]

Hi George!

I was actually considering the Radio Placement after I sent that last post...

Here is something I disagree on...

If I recall correctly, the G-10 was "not" a further development of the standard G series...it was a design to be the most powerful aircraft possible, up to the standard of the already designed K, however using the G airframe. In-fact the G-10 used around 80% of the parts referenced in the K parts manual, and only around 20% of the late 1944 G manual. The 605DC engines were already available for the K, but none of the K assemblies were, due to delays. To keep up production, the G-10 was a new design, with efforts made to be as close to K as posisble, using the current airframe (until the K assemblies arrived at factory).

The issue is that in only 1 G-10 photo have seen a large battery located in this cockpit hatch position. There were also various design changes throughout G-10 production (such as flettner tabs on the "613..." serial, for example), which were implimented..all originating from the K design. Most photos show this baggage hatch removed (souvenir), and that space completely empty. Granted, the German's could have salvaged the battery, but then why would they leave the most useful and valuable weaponry, and take just a battery? I also can't see any relic hunters taking a battery either due to weight. As the ZBK241 was installed only on aircraft equipped with Bombs, it makes sense that this space be empty on the wrecks (either taken by souvenir hunters, or never installed).

The K cargo hatch was a different size and shape, along with a new way of attaching to the rear cockpit area (you cannot fit a K hatch on a G airframe or visa versa as I have already tried). These G-10 hatches with the box-shape would have already been made, and already standard...so they kept the design.

As the Me109K was made at the same time as the G-10...my suspicion is that as though it may have been "conceived" to house the battery in this hatch position (and probably done so on the first production G-10's), the German's matched the K interior equipment placement, and moved the battery and radio positions to match.

It would also make sense as friends of mine who have dug G-10 wrecks have never found one in that position...

Thoughts?

mike

[Rolfeb]

I digged out a G-10 and at that place there was mounted the "Kurssteuerung"

Rolf