Unidentified Insignia on Ju88A

[Larry Hickey]

Hello,

I've recently acquired a photo of a Ju88A being salvaged by a heavy Hanomag truck after a belly landing. Codes can't be read, but it is known from other photos that this is aircraft "A," probably a Sta Kap's plane. Attached is a close up of this insignia from a previous eBay auction a couple of years ago. Can anyone ID this?

Does anyone know anything about when or where this Ju88A might have made its forced landing?

http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=7&u=11993385

Thanx,

[trevor baxter]

Larry, this is the emblem of 3./F121 and appeared on at least one JU 88 of which I have a rather poor photo. Attached is a drawing of the emblem,where it came from I cant remember.

[ArtieBob]

Trevor, thanks for the unit identification, that is one not previously entered in my data. The same data indicates very few 3.(F)/121 Ju 88s suffered damage consistent with the photo. Each should have some pretty significant visible identification clues. If Larry will provide any additional information he has, i.e., the full photo the fragmentis from, of or any additional photos, crew name, etc., it may be possible to identify the specific aircraft and incident.

Best regards,

Artie Bob

[Larry Hickey]

Trevor & Artie Bob,

Thanks for the comments. Artie Bob, I've attached two more views of aircraft from this Staffel, which appear to be two separate incidents, although I haven't studied them that closely. My other photo doesn't provide any additional info. Any opinions about the identity of the specific incidents would be appreciated.

http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=8&u=11993385

http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=9&u=11993385

Regards,

Larry

[obdl3945]

Hi...

I also think that these are two different events, as the 'belly-landed' machine's propellor blades are bent backwards on the right engine and feathered on the left; the 'nosed-over' aircraft has relatively undamaged propellor blades. Code for this machine may well have been 7A+AL.

Great photos, though... very interesting.

[ArtieBob]

My loss and damage list has only four Ju 88s from 3./(F)121 that would seem to have landing or forced landing damage. Three of the four are either D-1 or D-5 subtypes which would indicate later engines (different nacelles) and different rear canopies than shown in the photos (the rear canopy is laying on the wing in one photo. W.Nr. 452, an A-5(F) made a forced landing on 27 October 1940 at Morlaix as the result of an engine failure. Looking at the first photo, the top blade on the Port engine is straight, indicating it was probably not running when the belly landing was made (noting all blades are bent on the starboard side, they are also bent back and twisted to a greater degree indicating they took a couple more whacks from the ground while turning). If all this speculation is correct, then the damage was reported as 20% with no crew injuries.

I agree the second photo is a different incident. Which is the incident reported I am not certain, but the second photo incident does not appear to have 20% damage and might have been so minor as not to have made the Quartermaster’s list, which IIRC did not include damage less than ?10%?.

I would not consider this to be a positive identification, as it is based on a pretty good degree of speculation. However, that only a single aircraft seems to fit all the identifiable elements is a good sign, usually when I do this kind of analysis on an image, there are multiple possibilities.

Best Regards,

Artie Bob

[Larry Hickey]

Hello,

Thanks Artie Bob. I would have expected this to be from probably the French Campaign, but I haven't run this unit against my Ju88 DB for that period. October 27, 1940, if a good guess. The first aircraft was recovered by a very heavy Hanomog truck, as a recovery vehicle. I haven't observed this recovery system in other photos from the FC, so your BoB period ID may, in fact, be correct.

Regards,

[ArtieBob]

As regards the timing, one image clearly shows the Ju 88 “long span” wing. According to the records I have, Ju 88 A-5s did not come off the assembly lines until August at the earliest, definitely too late for the battle for France (and although a number of A-1s were converted to that wing configuration, it would not seem that would have preceded the start of A-5 production). The other image does not show wing tips, so the timing is not as certain. Also, QM summary reports did not usually include W.Nr. until around September 1940 (IIRC). Thus, identification of a specific aircraft is much more difficult prior to that month , although a specific incident can sometimes be picked if the unit and location is identified.

Best Regards,

Artie Bob

[Larry Hickey]

Hello,

Now that we've got a provisional ID on this insignia, can anyone provide color info for it for a prospective color profile painting? Trevor, can you tell me what the source of your drawing is of this insignia? Is this something you did from the posted image, or does it come from somewhere else? What type of bird is this supposed to be?

Thanx,

[trevor baxter]

Hi Larry,
This image was downloaded by me some years ago,from where I cant remember and I would have no idea what the colours were. For proof of the unit identity I attach a rather poor photo taken from the corner of a target photo of 3.(F) 121. Hope this helps trevor.