ID possible?

[Stijn David]

Hello,


Is the identification of this downed british plane possible? This picture is taken in Tunisia (between november 1942 towards april 1943).


Cordial greetings and thanks in advance

[Stig Jarlevik]

David

I would not be surprised if this is Spitfire Vb ER820 which was lost on 22.12.1942. It is stated to have sailed as cargo to North Africa on 19.11.1942 and since no known unit is known it is possible it had only reached some unknown MU for testing when luck ran out.

B Rgds
Stig

[Stijn David]

Hello Stig,

Thank you very much. Does this mean that this Spitfire was then not yet assigned towards a unit?

Is the pilot known?

German reports from the day earlyer (21 December) state that they did shot a low flying spitfire down east of Mateur at arround 11.30 H. This is probably this plane.

Cordial greetings,

[Stig Jarlevik]

Well David

Anything is possible, but I would be careful to jump to any conclusions if I were you.

ER820 has no recorded North African history and it is doubtful (but not impossible) she ever was delivered to an operational unit. Her record card says lost on 22.12.1942, not 21.12.1942.

Cheers
Stig

[Stijn David]

Hello Stig,


Indeed - i noticed the time difference by a day. The German Division's KTB does not mention any downing of allied aircrafts on the 22. But then again it is possible that they did not record it.

The KTB (Div. von Broich) does mention from time to time the downing of allied aircraft as it was apparently something that did not happen every day.

Cordial greetings + it would be nice to clarify this loss.

[Alex Smart]

Hello,
Don't suppose that the "leg" of the "R" could be damage to aircraftor blemish on the negative or print ?
? EP820 - 229 Sqdn - NFT
I wonder why they delivery date Gibraltar is earlier than the others on the ship ?
See "SS620" seems to be three different departure dates and two different arrival dates ?
EP258 VbT SS620 15-10-42 Middle East 5-11-42
EP545 VbT SS620 15-10-42 Gibraltar 1-11-42
EP668 Vb SS620 15-10-42 Gibraltar 1-11-42
EP713 VbT SS620 15-10-42 Gibraltar 1-11-43 ? typo ?
EP774 Vb SS620 15-10-42 Gibraltar 1-11-42
EP775 VbT SS620 10-10-42 Gibraltar 1-11-42
EP776 VbT SS620 15-10-42 Gibraltar 1-11-42
EP780 VbT SS620 15-10-42 Gibraltar 1-11-42
EP784 VbT SS620 15-10-42 Gibraltar 1-11-42
EP820 Vb SS620 4-10-42 Gibraltar 15-10-42
EP825 VbT SS620 15-10-42 Gibraltar 1-11-42
EP847 Vb SS620 15-10-42 Gibraltar 1-11-42
EP872 Vb SS620 15-10-42 Gibraltar 1-11-42
EP874 Vb SS620 15-10-42 Gibraltar 1-11-42
EP876 Vb SS620 15-10-42 Gibraltar 1-11-42
EP890 Vb SS620 15-10-42 Gibraltar 1-11-42
EP900 Vb SS620 15-10-42 Gibraltar 1-11-42
EP909 Vb SS620 15-10-42 Gibraltar 1-11-42
EP958 Vb SS620 15-10-42 Gibraltar 1-11-42
EP961 VbT SS620 15-10-42 Gibraltar 1-11-42
EP967 Vb SS620 15-10-42 Gibraltar 1-11-42
EP976 Vb SS620 15-10-42 Gibraltar 1-11-42
EP978 Vb SS620 15-10-42 Gibraltar 1-11-42
EP979 Vb SS620 15-10-42 Gibraltar 1-11-42
EP980 Vb SS620 15-10-42 Gibraltar 1-11-42
EP986 Vb SS620 15-10-42 Gibraltar 1-11-42
ER120 VbT SS620 15-10-42 Gibraltar 1-11-42
ER124 Vb SS620 15-10-42 Gibraltar 1-11-42
ER144 Vb SS620 15-10-42 Gibraltar 1-11-42
ER145 Vb SS620 15-10-42 Gibraltar 1-11-42
ER161 Vb SS620 15-10-42 Gibraltar 1-11-42
ER163 Vb SS620 15-10-42 Gibraltar 1-11-42
ER174 Vb SS620 15-10-42 Gibraltar 1-11-42
ER176 VbT SS620 15-10-42 Gibraltar 1-11-42
ER185 Vb SS620 15-10-42 Gibraltar 1-11-42
ER191 Vb SS620 15-10-42 Gibraltar 1-11-42
ER197 VbT SS620 15-10-42 Gibraltar 1-11-42
ER219 Vb SS620 15-10-42 Gibraltar 1-11-42
ER225 VbT SS620 15-10-42 Gibraltar 1-11-42
ER260 VbT SS620 15-10-42 Gibraltar 1-11-42
ER262 VbT SS620 15-10-42 Gibraltar 1-11-42
ER263 VbT SS620 15-10-42 Gibraltar 1-11-42
ER266 VbT SS620 15-10-42 Gibraltar 1-11-42
ER503 Vb SS620 15-10-42 Gibraltar 1-11-42
ER510 VbT SS620 10-10-42 Gibraltar 1-11-42

and as for ER820 - Hamble IV 19-11-42 - EAfrica C3 ops 22-12-42

F/Sgt Martin A. Lundy RAFVR - 229 Sqdn - DoD 21/11/1942



Alex
refs: AB EA100 EZ999; www.spitfire.ukf.net

[Stig Jarlevik]

Alex

Nothing against your theory as such, but the problem is that 229 Sq was based in Malta, where it recently had reformed.

I have no reports that this unit was used over Tunisia. Rather it was used for defence and later for offensive missions over Sicily and surrounding areas. However having said that, Shores mentions 229 Sq in connection with possible Tunisian activities on 17.1.43 (one aircraft making for the Tunisian coast short on fuel), but only then.

My bet is still with ER820

Cheers
Stig

[Alex Smart]

Hello,
May be for ER820.

I came accross
the loss of
Pilot Officer Harold David Christian RAAF
111 Squadron.
DoD: 22/12/1942.
Cause given as Spitfire Accident .

Can anyone confirm that P/O Christian was indeed the pilot of ER820 on that date ?

Alex

[Col Bruggy]

Hello,

So have a few other people:

http://www.rafcommands.com/forum/sho...an-RAAF-400779

Col.

[Stijn David]

Hello,


Very interesting. And then to say that the German's claimed also 1 Spitfire downed by A.A. on 21.12.1942.

The riddle still exists now, we have:

* The picture of the downed plane (ID ed as such => most probably downed on 22.12.1942)
* KTB Division von Broich wich claims a Spitfire was downed on 21.12.1942

It offcoarse is possible that these 2 facts did not have to do anything with each other and are 2 seperate facts. The picture is from a Lw. soldier and it clearly shows a wrecked fuselage, it is very wel possible that they did find this wreack some periode after it was shot down by the American A.A..

THen the riddle about the loss of 21.12.1942 still remains. Anyone can shed a light on that?.


Cordial greetings and thanks towards al participants,