GCI/145 in 1940

[keith A]

Can anyone confirm the victories credited to GCI/145?

My list is as follows:

03.06.40 2-0-0 He111 de Marmier/Zukowski/Czerniak
08.06.40 0-1-0 Bf109 Glowczynski
09.06.40 3-0-0 Bf109 Glowczynski, Parafinski, and Godlewski/Zaniewski
1-0-0-Do17 Wczelik/Kowalski/Markiewicz
10.06.40 4-0-0 Do17 Czerniak(2), Czerwinski, Zukowski
1-0-0 Bf109 Laguna
0-1-0 Bf109 Lukaszewicz
18.06.40 1-0-0 He111 Wczelik/Markiwicz/Delagay

The claimants seem to change every time I look into this, but substantially this adds up to the 12 credited to them in most histories. I haven't managed to match any of the claims to German losses so far, not surprising then the poor performance of the CR714 is considered.

regards

Keith

[VoyTech]

Well, first you'd have to define 'confirm' and 'credited'.
'Confirm' what? That the claim was filed? That it was officially credited by military authorities? That a combat took place?
'Credited' by whom? The French in 1940? The Poles in 1940 in France? The Poles later on in Britain? Post-war researchers?
I have no access to official French paperwork of/related to the time, but I have a copy of the official list of victories credited to Polish pilots in the French campaign compiled by Polish AF officials in Britain later in the war. Your listing seems to have virtually nothing in common with it.

Do you know the book about GC1/145 by Bartlomiej Belcarz? This should include the answers you seek.

[robert]

This book is full of errors and mistakes. Perhaps the new book on "CR.714" will be better?
Keith I have some French documents on GCI/145 and I will check it for you.

Regards

Robert

[VoyTech]

Originally Posted by robert

This book is full of errors and mistakes.

Interesting observation.
If what I do is as "full of errors and mistakes" as what Mr Belcarz does, I'm quite happy.

[robert]

I know that he is your friend but if you will take a look at French documents you will see the difference. I was also able to identify the German units, which became engaged with GCI/145 so I know the actual German losses. BTW the French documents are much clearer than Polish files.

Regards

Robert

[VoyTech]

Keith, I attach a copy of the listing of victories credited to pilots of GC I/145 by the Polish AF HQ. The original document is held at the Polish Institute and Sikorski Museum in London.
They were categorised in the standard RAF manner: confirmed-probable-damaged. "Po xx dla pilota" means "xx for each pilot".
As you can see it is dated 11 July 1945, because it was part of an overall assessment of Polish fighter claims/credits done at the end of WWII.
To my knowledge this is the only official listing of victories credited to GC I/145 pilots, as opposed to various listings prepared by researchers in recent years, which may be more accurate in historical detail.

[Tom Semenza]

VoyTech,

Thanks for posting that list. Unfortunately it is cut off at claim no. 13 and I cannot get it to scroll down any further. Can you tell me what is listed from claim 13 and after?

Thanks,
Tom

[keith A]

Many thanks Voytech and others. Blimey what a can of worms! I agree "confirmed" and "credited" have different meanings but in both instances I was using them to refer to those allowed by official sources...although I now realise it depends which official sources....;-(.

I assume that after claim 13 there was only one more victory claimed, that of 18.06.40? I note that the claims of 3.6.40 are not included.

regards

Keith

[VoyTech]

There is nothing to scroll down to, I'm afraid. I have cut out the whole official credit listing for GC I/145 from a larger document.
The complete typescript covered all Polish pilots in the Battle of France, and subsequent entries (starting at no. 13) are not relevant to GC I/145.
It seems the 18/6 claims weren't officially filed by Polish pilots and were therefore not credited.
Keith, what is your source for the 3/6 claims? Is it a document or a publication?

[udf_00]

A thesis in french :
theses.univ-lyon3.fr/documents/getpart.php?id=1668&action=pdf
pp240-252 a day to day account of GC I/145, 2-18 June 1940.