Spitfire P9374 Article Aeroplane June 2008

[paulmcmillan]

Andy Saunders has written an article in this months Aeroplane (June 2008) on the loss of Spitfire P9374 on 24th May 1940, piloted by F/O P.F. Cazenove (73727) of 92 Sqn on Calais beach (PoW) and its subsequent re-discovery (1980) and recovery in 1981. There is a picture of the wreckage in 1940 which reveals the individual code to be either GR-J or GR-L (only the top of the last letter is shown, and from the photo it appears it may not have had the GR painted on it). The actual aircraft code is not mentioned in the article, does anyone (Andy?) know what it was?

Update: A quick google search indicates it is GR-J, but I was wondering why this is not mentioned as it is 'un-confirmed'


BTW very great article Andy, thanks for writing it!

Paul

[Peter Cornwell]

Can't offer any confirmation of the individual letter I'm afraid but No.92 Squadron codes were being changed from GR to QJ around that time which could explain their apparent absence on a partly re-coded aircraft ?

[paulmcmillan]

Peter

Thanks for your input

Paul

[Spitfire 9]

Originally Posted by Peter Cornwell

Can't offer any confirmation of the individual letter I'm afraid but No.92 Squadron codes were being changed from GR to QJ around that time which could explain their apparent absence on a partly re-coded aircraft ?

I have a photo of Roger Bushell's N3194 crash landed on the 23rd May
which clearly shows 92 sq code as GR-Z.

Not sure how P9374 can positively be identified from such wreckage though........


Mervyn.

[Peter Cornwell]

Mervyn,

The only photographs of BUSHELL's crash-landed N3194 that I am familiar with show it burned out after he reportedly set fire to it after landing. So if you have one showing it with the old GR codes I (for one) would be most grateful if you would post it for all to see. According to First Light by Geoffrey WELLUM (2002) the squadron codes were QJ by the time of Dunkirk so your photograph could confirm the transitional state of No.92 Squadron code letters at that time.

[Andy Saunders]

Originally Posted by Spitfire 9

I have a photo of Roger Bushell's N3194 crash landed on the 23rd May
which clearly shows 92 sq code as GR-Z.

Not sure how P9374 can positively be identified from such wreckage though........


Mervyn.

Mervyn

I don't think there is any doubting the identity of the recovered wreckage as P9374. Ample evidence to confirm it; stencilled on gun feed chute, pencilled on a removable access panel and a perfect match of the engine number to that recorded on the AM Form 78. Case closed, I'd say!!

[Andy Saunders]

Originally Posted by paulmcmillan

Andy Saunders has written an article in this months Aeroplane (June 2008) on the loss of Spitfire P9374 on 24th May 1940, piloted by F/O P.F. Cazenove (73727) of 92 Sqn on Calais beach (PoW) and its subsequent re-discovery (1980) and recovery in 1981. There is a picture of the wreckage in 1940 which reveals the individual code to be either GR-J or GR-L (only the top of the last letter is shown, and from the photo it appears it may not have had the GR painted on it). The actual aircraft code is not mentioned in the article, does anyone (Andy?) know what it was?

Update: A quick google search indicates it is GR-J, but I was wondering why this is not mentioned as it is 'un-confirmed'


BTW very great article Andy, thanks for writing it!

Paul

Paul

Thanks for your kind comments! My belief is that the code letter is indeed "J". Certainly no squadron codes (GR or QJ) can be seen, and as Peter Cornwell points out it is reasonable to assume this is related to the transition from GR to QJ at this time. Lets hope that when P9374 rises from the ashes she will get the correct roundel and no squadron codes....but I wouldn't want to put money on it.

Andy

[Spitfire 9]

Originally Posted by Andy Saunders

Mervyn

I don't think there is any doubting the identity of the recovered wreckage as P9374. Ample evidence to confirm it; stencilled on gun feed chute, pencilled on a removable access panel and a perfect match of the engine number to that recorded on the AM Form 78. Case closed, I'd say!!

Hi Andy,

Well done! That's another one out the way !
Having not viewed the wreckage I was completely unaware that. So much was gleaned from so little.
I better go buy the A/M as well !

I have a small photo purported to be P9374 taken at the time showing the a/c facing along the beach, definately below the high water line (tide is out) centre section completely burned out, a couple of Germans loitering in the background.
There are several houses in a group to the left, in the middle is what looks like a terminal building, to the right of that & nearer to the shore line is what looks like a two story 'pointed' (little like a ship) building, possible bunker? Then, on the right side of the photo is another two story house.
Should be enough to ID the location of this photo for sure.

A x check with any photos taken at recovery would be interesting......

I am rather reluctant to post photos as to many folks lift them now.

While on the topic on wreckage, have you been able to positively
identify the A/C of Douglas Bader yet? Your recovery in France shown on that TV documentary, most interesting !

Cheers, Mervyn.

[Spitfire 9]

One more......

Another Spitfire beach photo, this one again with the usual center section burnt out, all three blades bent back, so the engine was probably dead at the landing
Aircraft is lying along the beach, camera shot is toward the sea so, no reference points.
Only the a/c letter B is clear.......any ideas please ?

Mervyn.

[Peter Cornwell]

Mervyn,

Sorry but with the best will in the world it is difficult to even hazard a guess at the identity of your photographs from a description alone. Incidentally I was wrong to say that BUSHELL set fire to his aircraft after his crash-landing on May 23, 1940. Having since checked his account he reported that the aircraft was already on fire when he put her down. Either way it burned out, so your photograph of GR*Z (N3194) was not taken that day & it may well have carried the new QJ codes.