German aircraft Crashed In Normandy Sept 1943

[Eric Larger]

Dear all

I recently found aircraft aluminium parts in my garden . I compared the parts with Monogram painting guide , and the colours observed are RLM74/75 .

I have also interviewed "ancients" of my village and all of them remember that a german fighter crashed in flames 150m from home .

I have located the crash site , this week-end .

The action took place in 1st half of September 1943 , at 17h00 (french time) . The machine in flames was coming from West and crashed in cherry-trees.

The pilots was killed , so body parts were found around the crash site .

One of the witnesses remember that it was smelling fuel everywhere , and that papers were found under the leather helmet of the pilot .

The german troops stationned at the Abbey came immediately .

For me it could be a JG2 aircraft , based either at Triqueville or Beaumont le Roger.

I have find several losses lists concerning JG2 but none of them mentionning 1943 .

I have included a satellite view of my region , Triqueville is situated west this view and Beaumont le Roger further south east.

Many thanks for your help

Eric

[Jochen Prien]

Dear Eric Larger,

being at the office and not having all the neccessary data here at hand I can offer you the following candidate for the loss you are researching:

Lt. Kastner, then temporary Staffelführer of 12./JG 2, was shot down in aerial combat with fighters on September 11th, 1943, and crashed near Jumièges, being killed in the process. The comabat, which took place shortly after 18.00 hrs German time, started west of Rouen near Croisot. I can give you further details if you find that this could be "your man".

You can of course also contact me off board.

Regards

Jochen Prien

[laurent]

Hello Eric ,

Several JG2 losses on 10 Sept. 1943 , could match with F/O H.J Downding 403 Squadron who claimed a Me 109 at 18.10 near Barentin.
If so could be G-6 # 20348 of 12/JG2 , Lt Rudolf Kastner killed.
However french archives state about another crash at 18.30 , close to the town hall at Quevillon , pilot killed .
Could you confirm it was a Me 109 or a Fw190 ?
Also on 14 July , Oblt Günter Berhendt killed West Rouen , G-3 # 16294.
// on 29 June , U. Richard Lüdemann killed Yvetot , G-6 # 19487 .
Or 9 Sept. , Gefr. Willi Jungfer killed Rouen , A-6 # 526026.

It would be better if you could confirm which type of fighter it was .

Laurent Viton

[Eric Larger]

Thanks

for these precisions .

I don't know what aircraft it was , both fighters are good candidates .

The witnesses are not able to remember which aircraft they saw, I show them a lot of pictures of FW 190A-5/6 /7 and Bf 109G-5/G-6 . It was difficult to recognise the aircraft as it was on fire , with black smoke .

The date is sure first half September 1943 . This is up to now the sole aircraft I know crashed at Jumièges . There were several bombs dropped on the village fields .

Someone could have a look to the french "Gendarmerie" archives to see if there is any trace of this crash .

The combat could have begun near Croisset near Canteleu over the River Seine .

Eric

[Andreas Brekken]

Hi.

Making two assumptions that I see you guys have done, the first being that the aircraft was from J.G.2, and the second that the crash occured between September 1st and 15th 1943, in addition to the statement from Eric that the pilot was killed, the available candidates are:

http://www.ahs.no/ref_db/lw_loss_pub...?lossid=106340

http://www.ahs.no/ref_db/lw_loss_pub...?lossid=118468

http://www.ahs.no/ref_db/lw_loss_pub...?lossid=118469

http://www.ahs.no/ref_db/lw_loss_pub...?lossid=118464

http://www.ahs.no/ref_db/lw_loss_pub...?lossid=118465

http://www.ahs.no/ref_db/lw_loss_pub...?lossid=106151

http://www.ahs.no/ref_db/lw_loss_pub...?lossid=118456

http://www.ahs.no/ref_db/lw_loss_pub...?lossid=106150

http://www.ahs.no/ref_db/lw_loss_det...p?lossid=17324

http://www.ahs.no/ref_db/lw_loss_pub...?lossid=117325

http://www.ahs.no/ref_db/lw_loss_pub...?lossid=118454


I am sure that several of these can be filtered out with regards to geographical location, but as I am not too familiar with the area mentioned, I'll let you guys discuss this.

Regards,
Andreas B

[Eric Larger]

Thanks Andreas

only this record is a very good candidate

http://www.ahs.no/ref_db/lw_loss_pub...?lossid=118454


The other ones are too much far from where I live .

As you can see on the map I enclosed in my original post , the small town where I live is west of Rouen .

The crash followed a dog fight , at least one witness saw it , there were circa 10 single engine aircrafts fighting at 1000 , 1500 m .

One more time many thanks to all of you for this precious help .

I let you be aware of the progresses in my researches .

Did one of you know where I can find where this pilot was burried . Was there any official mention for this ?

I will try to post this evening a photograph of the aluminium sking I find in my garden.

All the best


Eric

[Joe Potter]

Eric,
Lt Rudolf Kastner is buried at Campigny-St Andre, Block 17, Grave 7.
Regards
Joe.

[Andreas Brekken]

Hi

He is buried at Champigny - St. André, Grave 7 in Block 17.

Regards,
Andreas B

[Eric Larger]

Many thanks to all of you

I now this cimetery but I never never noticed this grave .

The cimetery is situated at Champigny La Futenaye , few Km from Saint André de l'Eure .

Eric

[laurent]

Sorry Eric ,

But I think it is the crash reported near the town hall at Quevillon that day ( from french gendarmerie archives ).
Are you sure it is a Luftwaffe loss ?

Laurent