Do18 M7+YK 2/806 shot down 26/9/39

[Brian]

Hi guys

Does anyone have record of the forenames of two of the crew of the above aircraft, please:

Uffz HECHT
Uffz SCHMALFELD

Both were taken prisoner together with the two officers of the aircrew.

Cheers
Brian

[Peter Cornwell]

Brian,

I have them as Uffz Walter HECKT & Uffz Fritz SCHMALFELT but I believe that their correct unit designation was 2./506 at that time.

[Stig Jarlevik]

Brian
Didn't you or someone else have this topic a while ago? Is this the same Do 18 which was shot down by Skuas of 803 Sq and with their crew captured by a RN destroyer? If so it was then listed as K6+YK of 2./506 just like Peter says.

Cheers
Stig

[Brian]

Peter & Stig

Can we clear this up - I have information that the Do18 was M7+YK of 2/806 and you both agree it was K6+YK of 2/506.

Even though I am outnumbered, I won't accept that I am wrong unless someone like 'Seaplanes' will confirm one way or the other! I don't have red hair for nothing! At least it was red many moons ago.

Where are you, Seaplanes?

Cheers
Brian

[Seaplanes]

The Do 18D-3 W.Nr. 731 M7+YK that was lost on 26.09.1939, belonged to Küstenaufklärungsstaffel 2./506. On 25 October 1939 most of Gruppe 506, Stab, 1./506 and 3./506 were renumbered Stab, 1./806 and 2./806 respectively, while the 2./506 was renumbered 1./406. The unit code of Gruppe 506, M7+ was passed on to Gruppe 806. Before 25.10.1939 there were no Gruppe 806 at all.

[Peter Cornwell]

Brian,

Oh ye of little faith ! And by the way, you're welcome. Also I did not say it was coded K6+YK for photos clearly show it to have been M7+YK.

Thank you 'Seaplanes'.

[Brian]

Thanks Seaplanes!

OK Peter, I'll eat my toupee (I haven't got a hat!)

Many thanks to you all

Cheers
Brian

[Stig Jarlevik]

Hi Guys

With the risk of getting the bobo-prize of the year, I take my chances to continue this topic one more round

When Seaplanes mentioned the WNr I checked my Do 18 list and sure enough there the same combat is recorded with the correct code AND on top the correct names as listed by Brian and Peter. Now to my problems.

First of all (personal reflection) I think the Luftwaffe used a totally wasted and difficult system in changing their units back and forth and constantly reforming them again. Did anyone in the Luftwaffe ever ask why? Must have given a lot of people a really worthwhile task to do in the RLM...

1) Rosch in his Luftwaffe codes says Kü Fl Gr 506 had the ID code S4. There is no indication M7 was ever used by the unit. Can someone correct Barry's book please?

2) I have also found the "incident" in Shores et all Fledgling Eagles on page 77 and out of line with the "main" story where the main date is found on pages 70-71. I now understand why the previous discussion in this forum mentioned K6+YK, because there it is on page 77!! What is puzzling however is the names listed by Shores, Lt zur See Wilhelm Freiherr von Reitzenstein and Lt zur See Ernst Körner. Where does these names arrive from and stated by Shores. Were they from another crew in the same fight?

3) On page 79 Shores mentiones another lost Do 18 on the 29th of Sept 1939 also from 2./506, K6+RK. If 506 used M7 on the 26th, they ought to use it also on the 29th. Any opinions?

Cheers
Stig

[Peter Cornwell]

Hello Stig,

The full crew of the Do18D (731) M7+YK of 2./506 shot down 145 miles east of Rattray Head (57' 36" N, 2' 38" E) by three No. 803 (FAA) Squadron Skuas from Ark Royal on September 26, 1939, was as follows:

Ff: Lt z S Wilhelm von Reitzenstein
Beo: Lt z S Ernst Körner
Bf: Uffz Walter Heckt
Bm: Uffz fritz Schmalfeldt

The German unit is confirmed by GQM Returns and also RAF Intelligence. I am afraid that Fledgling Eagles qives the wrong codes and also includes a photo of this aircraft on p84 wrongly attributed to another machine.

However, from this photograph and the RAF Intelligence Report, it is clear that M7 was the code for KuFlGr.506 at that time prior to its redesignation as KuFlGr.806 as described by Seaplanes. I suspect that it was the newly constituted KuFlGr.506 that carried S4 as its unit code.

I cannot answer for the 'Do18 K6+RK of 2./506' damaged by a No. 224 Squadron Hudson on September 29, 1939, as described by Shores. The only Do18 casualty I can find that day was a Do18 (668) of 2./106 that was 20% damaged when it hit a sandbank in a night-landing accident at Nordeney. However, I note that Jim Perry has it listed as shown and quoting Shores as a source.

[Stig Jarlevik]

Thanks Peter (again )

Well, it explains the crew!
I have also updated the unit codes in my book by Rosch
Also updated the Fledling Eagles book. I guess Shores relied quite a bit on the research done by Heinrich Weiss on the German bit.

Cheers
Stig