Info about TGr/186 Bf109e's may 1940

[Foute Man]

Looking for some info and ID numbers from II./TGr 186 in may 1940:

This unit flew combatmissions against Dutch targets in may 1940, scored several victories and lost several aircraft. Some questions:

- Can anybody tell me wich unit Kurt Ubben belonged to. Some sources mention him as a 5th staffel pilot (his ac being red 13), other sources mention 6th staffel (ac being yellow 13). Did his aircraft had the witch on broom logo some TGr 186 aircraft carried? Did his aircraft has ID nr 13?

- Another logo on TGr186 aircraft is a Penguin logo (look at the nose of the attached "bf109e1_4tgr186_white12_01.jpg") seen on this 4th staffel aircraft in Norway june 1940. Was this logo a staffel logo or a personal logo? Did this staffel ever flew the Ju87 as it was supposed to do, or did they only fly the bf109e?

- On the attached "TGr 186 red 14.jpg" Fokker D 21 234 is in combat with a red 14. In the distance you can see a lighthouse and a city. Interpreting this city as Den Helder, and the rest of the scenery as North Sea and Texel, is this a 5./TGr aircraft and if yes, who's the pilot?

- Brongers mentions a 6th staffel aircraft being shot down at Pingjum may 12 1940. Some internetsources link a picture of a II Gruppe bf109e with ID nr 12 to this event. On the picture the ID nr appears to be to dark to be yellow. So is the aircraft on the picture the aircraft in Pinjum (see the attached "Bf109E-1 6 TGr 186 12.jpg " picture) If no, any information about the ac's unit and wich 6th staffel ac did crash at Pingjum?

At the moment I can link only one pilot to an aircraft: 5th staffel red 1 flown by Dieter Robitsch. Is there more information about wich aircraft was flown by wich pilot?

groeten!!!!!

[robert]

Hi,

- Ubben flew with 5/186
- Penguin was emblem of the 4/186
- the flight (5/186) used in this time rather black and small numbers - for me it`s fiction
- this is black 12 from the 2(J)/LG2 c/l by Lt.Helmut Mertens (?) due to fuel starvation - being in Holland I often heard that many people connected this photo with losses suffered by German Fighter Arm on the 11th May - unfortunately it`s rather not truth.

Regards

Robert

[Peter Cornwell]

Foute Man,

Robert has provided the information you requested but a few details remain. The Witch emblem you mention was carried by the Bf109s of 6./TrGr.186 while Hptmn Dietrich ROBITSCH (Staffelkapitan) of 5./TrGr.186 was flying the 'Black 1' when brought down near Den Helder on May 10, 1940.

I./TrGr.186 was Junkers Ju87 equipped being redesignated III./StG.1 on July 6, 1940.

[Hans Nauta]

Hello Robert,

The picture of the bellylanded Schwarze 12 has bothered me for a long time. Do you have more details concerning this picture like place and date?

Best regards,
Hans Nauta

[robert]

Hi Hans,

no I haven`t, most probably this loss was not listed.

Regards

Robert

[Foute Man]

Thanks for the feedback so far. Still would like to get to know more off the other ac/pilots of this unit during the 5 day war above Holland. I' m member of a project team planning to release a freeware addon for CFS3 called Attack In The West. Looking for info and/or pictures to create misstions etc.

So if you know more feel free to post your reply

groeten!!!!

[Pieter H]

Beware: the symbol of the witch on a broomstick was dropped by the unit during the winter 1939/40. During the Westfeldzug the Bf109's were no longer using this! an example is Robitsch' machine.

Robert,
You mention that the picture of the crashed black 12 is probably Lt Mertens of 2(J)/LG2. Do you have a date and location for this crash?

Pieter

[Evgeny Velichko]

Robert:

Are there any photoes of Lt. Peter Emmerich or his aircraft known? He flew with 6./Tr.Gr.186 as Ltn, and as Oblt. with 5./Tr.Gr.186. Seems he became StaKa after Oblt. Dietrich Robitzsch...

[robert]

Hi,

@Evgeny - I don`t have information that he was Staka of any flight in II(T)/186. The Staka of 5th and then 8/JG77 was Weber and a photo of his plane does exist.
@Peter - according to the plane rooster the black 12 belonged to Lt.Mertens. According to 'Luftwaffe in Focus No.1" this plane was crash-landed by Uffz.Friedrich Moeller on the 10.05.40 in the area of Luettlich (fuel starvation). According to Jochen Prien it could be crash-landed by unknown pilot on the 12th May by Tongeren after air combat with Hurricanes.

Regards

Robert

[Evgeny Velichko]

THX Robert.

When Weber became StaKa of 5/186?

06.05.40 Lt. Peter Emmerich 6./186 Wellington - 06.00 1
10.05.40 Lt. Peter Emmerich 5./186 D-XXI - - 2
12.05.40 Oblt. Peter Emmerich 5./186 Fokker C-V - - 3
24.05.40 Oblt. Peter Emmerich 5./186 Blenheim - 08.30 4

I mean this period - does his or his aircraft photo known?

Seems he was moved to 3./Erpr.Gr.210 together with Oblt. Otto Hintze.

3.10.40 Oblt. Peter Emmerich was appointed StaKa 3./Erpr.Gr.210.

BTW: what was his fate? Did he survived the war?