Castle Bromwich Aeroplane Factory plate with the serial No. C.B.A.F. 318 on it

[Trevor Matthews]

I have acquired a Castle Bromwich Aeroplane Factory plate with the serial No. C.B.A.F. 318 on it. Can this be tied down to any particular aircraft?

Many thanks for your help

Trevor

[PeterA]

Originally Posted by Trevor Matthews

I have acquired a Castle Bromwich Aeroplane Factory plate with the serial No. C.B.A.F. 318 on it. Can this be tied down to any particular aircraft?

Many thanks for your help

Trevor

As such, no it can't.

However if you have more details of the plate, and provided it is a plate from the cockpit and/or firewall it might be possible to get within range and possibly make a reasonable estimate.

The drg. no. will reveal the location and the Vickers type number. There are many plates on a Spitfire

27 is the key.

PeterA

[Trevor Matthews]

Peter many thanks. The drawing No. is 30027 SHT7 Issue 14

Regards

Trevor

[PeterA]

Originally Posted by Trevor Matthews

Peter many thanks. The drawing No. is 30027 SHT7 Issue 14

Regards

Trevor

Looking good. A type 300 fuselage plate.

I will be back.

Peter

[PeterA]

CBAF 318

On its own CBAF 318 just tells you it is the 318th component or sub assembly the Castle Bromwich Aeroplane Factory has built. This could be a wing, a flap, a tailplane, a fuselage. Mk I Spitfires were built by Supermarine, prefix 6S, or it could even be, but not quite, a Mk 22 as the complex constructing number system was started again from scratch.

30027 SHT7 Issue 14. Tells us considerably more. Vickers had a grouping system that goes back to the flying boat days. The fuselage or hull was group 27. So your data plate comes from a component from and including the firewall, cockpit/fuselage and the tail fin, remembering that the Spitfire was conceived with an integral fin prior to the joint at frame 19.

Type 300 is Mk I Spitfire and after Mk II successive Spitfires carried the appropriate type number - 361 for Mk IX etc.

Drawing number 30027 SHT7 Issue 14 is in fact the firewall and because of the CBAF construction number will be a Mk II. Issue 14 for this drawing is dated 10 July 1940 incorporating Modification number 76 which was Mk II specific.

So this plate is from the 318th firewall that CBAF built.

From the known data plates of surviving Spitfire P7350 we know that the cockpit number is CBAF 14 but the firewall is CBAF 15. Already it is out of sequence by ‘1’. A firewall that didn’t pass inspection or was rejected, a request by Supermarine, who would know, and they did not need to be sequential, just traceable on the inspection department record.

If we advance forward from the known data of the cockpit/fuselage of P7350 along the build line 304 (318-14) we arrive at P7851. On this basis and unknown deviation, from experience, we should therefore be looking at a Spitfire +/- 50 on P7851 or from say P7782 –P7918.

The only other known data plate tie-ups for Mk II's that I have are unknown location (Cockpit or firewall) plate for P7819 which is CBAF 302 and cockpit plate for P7973 which is CBAF 492. So certainly Spitfires in either side of P7819 would be worthy of close scrutiny with regard to final fate.

I may well give this a little more study and refine it, but that will have to do for the time being.

In the mean time if you could advise the date stamped on the plate it may well be useful for the movement card study.

PeterA

[Andy Saunders]

This is curious, to say the very least.

P7816 is clearly a favourite (if not the only realistic) contender and this was a 41 Squadron Spitfire lost with Sgt J S Gilders over Kent in February 1941.

I am aware that my late friend, the collector Andy Cresswell, had just such a CBAF plate from Sgt Gilders' Spitfire in his collection. Some members of this forum will be aware that Andy was brutally murdered in what was, apparently, a bungled robbery just a matter of weeks ago.

That this particular plate should turn up now, at this particular time, in a discussion on this forum after being "acquired" by a forum member has raised not a few eyebrows. Mine amongst them.

Whilst not casting any asperions on Trevor Matthews this is bound to be viewed with concern.

[Andy Saunders]

David

Please see your p/m's.

Andy

[Trevor Matthews]

In view of the comments from Andy Saunders I can assure evererybody on this forum that there is nothing suspect or underhand in relation to to this plate. It has been legally acquired by a museum details of which will be announced at a later date. I have sent Andy a Private Message giving him the full details & hope that he will treat the information as confidential at this time.

Trevor Matthews

[Andy Saunders]

Trevor

The details contained in your private message are noted.

Under the circumstances I hope you will appreciate that my actions since reading these posts were in a public spirited nature and taken with the very best of intentions.

When I read your initial post it did not ring any alarm bells. However, when I read that post again but in conjunction with Peter A's submission in respect of the specific Spitfire aircraft from which the plate originated I realised - with something of a chill down my spine - that I was reading about a data plate that I knew had been in Andy Cresswell's possession since I was standing next to him, many years ago, when he actually found it!! To the best of my knowledge he still "owned" it at the time of his recent and still unsolved murder.

Given the above facts you will hopefully understand my concerns, although I now note your private explanation to me of the facts.