P/O Maurice Charles WOODGATE 21/11/41

[Andy Saunders]

I have been asked by a colleague to see what I can discover about P/O M C Woodgate lost in a Havoc out of Hinsdon on 21 November 1941. I have no reference sources to start with, aside from the details at CWGC.

Can anyone add any information?

Andy

[Ex Shack]

Hi Andy
Just a small piece.The death of a Maurice C Woodgate,20, is registered at Ware ,Hertfordshire in the 4th Qtr of 1941,3a 1258. I see from CWGC that he is commemorated at Golders Green Crematorium with his parents being in Harrow. Perhaps your colleague could obtain the Death Certificate from the GRO and see the cause, although this is often couched in purely Medical Terminology.Whatever it was it was clearly in this country.
Regards
Dick

[dp_burke]

The operating base may be Hunsdon, where 1451 Flight were based with Havoc's and Bostons in the Turbinlite airborne searchlight role at that time.

Using Geoff Sulivans site, at least one other RAF VR man died that day and was registered in Ware District.
Arthur E NORRISH

Flight Magazine Archives lists them both under:
Killed on Active Service (While engaged on Non Operational Flying duties or on the ground through enemy action)

regards

Dennis

[paulmcmillan]

According to AB Crash list two Havocs on this date

21.11.41 Havoc I AH432 1451 Flt Gilston Park, 1 m W of Harlow, Essex FIG
21.11.41 Havoc I BT460 51 OTU Cranfield BL
FIG = Flown Into Ground
BL = Belly Landed

I would hazard a guess that the one you are after is AH432

Paul

[Ex Shack]

Andy
Paul's guess could be right. Harlow is now a big town but it didn't grow until after the War as a designated new town to take London's overspill. In 1941 Ware would probably have been the place to register deaths in the area and Hunsdon is about 1/2 way between the two,with the crash sight slightly closer to Harlow
Regards
Dick

[Sydney]

Andy,

P/O M C Woodgate pilot, Sgt Norrish navigator and Sgt Smith, of 1451 Flt, 11 Group, Fighter Command were flying a weather test from Hunsdon in a Havoc II Turbinelite, night fighter, serial number AH432.
They took off at 1545 hours, 21-Nov-1944 and lost height while making a circuit of the aerodrome. The aircraft hit high trees at Gilston Park, 9 miles east of Hunsdon, while in a shallow diving attitude. The aircraft crashed into the ground with fire on impact. Both airframe and engines were Cat W.
P/O Woodgate and Sgt Norrish were killed but Sgt Smith escaped with slight injuries.
The investigation determined that the windscreen had misted up but the exact cause of the accident was unknown. It concluded that the probable cause was that the pilot could not see and hit the trees while still in cloud.
Interestingly the subsequent RAE report stated that the bodies had been exposed to concentrations of carbon monoxide outside permitted limits which might have led to an error of judgement (noted in report).
P/O Woodgate had 60 hours solo on accident type with a total of 283 hours, 33hrs on instruments and 49hrs hours night.
There were no night operations from Hunsdon that night owing to fog but the there was a dance in the Sergeant’s Mess.

My mother was Arthur Norrish’s fiancé in 1935 but family objections forced a separation. My mother later married another navigator who completed a tour on Wellingtons. Despite her poor knowledge of mathematics she was always able to calculate the chances of survival for aircrew in Europe; 50%.

Sydney.

[Sydney]

Erratum
They took off at 1545 hours, 21-Nov-1944 should be 21-Nov-41. Sorry

[Rex J Woodgate]

Originally Posted by Sydney

Andy,

P/O M C Woodgate pilot, Sgt Norrish navigator and Sgt Smith, of 1451 Flt, 11 Group, Fighter Command were flying a weather test from Hunsdon in a Havoc II Turbinelite, night fighter, serial number AH432.
They took off at 1545 hours, 21-Nov-1944 and lost height while making a circuit of the aerodrome. The aircraft hit high trees at Gilston Park, 9 miles east of Hunsdon, while in a shallow diving attitude. The aircraft crashed into the ground with fire on impact. Both airframe and engines were Cat W.
P/O Woodgate and Sgt Norrish were killed but Sgt Smith escaped with slight injuries.
The investigation determined that the windscreen had misted up but the exact cause of the accident was unknown. It concluded that the probable cause was that the pilot could not see and hit the trees while still in cloud.
Interestingly the subsequent RAE report stated that the bodies had been exposed to concentrations of carbon monoxide outside permitted limits which might have led to an error of judgement (noted in report).
P/O Woodgate had 60 hours solo on accident type with a total of 283 hours, 33hrs on instruments and 49hrs hours night.
There were no night operations from Hunsdon that night owing to fog but the there was a dance in the Sergeant’s Mess.

My mother was Arthur Norrish’s fiancé in 1935 but family objections forced a separation. My mother later married another navigator who completed a tour on Wellingtons. Despite her poor knowledge of mathematics she was always able to calculate the chances of survival for aircrew in Europe; 50%.

Sydney.

Many thanks for the infomation on my brother, everything you say on this is as I know it to have been But I would like any further details that might be available or where I might get further information from
Many thanks rex J Woodgate

[Sydney]

Rex,
My apologies for not replying. I am not too smart when it comes to forums. I rarely find out when I get a reply and if I informed I have great difficulty finding my original thread. I guess with only one posting a year I will remain a dunce. Your son has written me a private message and I have replied to his email address.