4./Seeaufkl.Gru. 126

[byron-]

Dear all,

I have a Staffel Kpt. of 4./Seeaufkl.Gru. 126 (01.12.42-30.09.43) named Oblt.z.S. Kriebel, he replaced as far i know Hptm. Rolf Lemp in 2./A.Gr.125

Question: What was his vorname? Who were his replacers till 10.44?

Have also some pilots of the same Staffel and don`t know the vornames, like:
Oblt. Schäfer,
Oblt. Richter,
Ofw. Kurth,
Ofw. Schlupka,
Ofw. Rupp,
Uffz. Hässler,

Uffz. Winzer,
Uffz. Paduch,
Ogfr. Schramm,
Uffz. Busse

Any help would be appreciated

[Doug Stankey]

Kriebel is apparently:

KRIEBEL, Paul.
01.10.41 promo to Oblt.
11.42 Oblt., appt Staka 2.(F)/Aufkl.Gr. 125 (to 05.43).
05.43 Oblt., appt Staka 2./SAGr. 125 (to 09.43).
09.43 appt Staka 4./SAGr. 126 (to 09.44).
20.04.45 promo to Hptm.

This is not to be confused with another fellow in the naval-air units:

KRIEBEL, Siegfried.
c. 06.41 Oblt., appt Staka 2./Kü.Fl.Gr. 906 (to 04.42?).
01.02.42 promo to Hptm.
20.04.45 promo to Maj.


We have nothing on Oblt. Schäfer, Oblt. Richter, who apparently never held a command or staff position, or a higher rank.

The others that you mentioned are too low in rank to be in our files.

You could also try the Kracker Archive at:
http://aircrewremembrancesociety.com...erArchive.html

Good luck and good hunting!

HLdZ
DGS

[byron-]

Doug

your help is always appreciated, thank you

byron

[Stig Jarlevik]

Doug

Michael Holm states that I./AufklGr 125 became I./SAGr 125 on 13.7.1943
Your reply indicates the change was already in May 1943. Can you expand on that please?

Byron/Doug

Byron, you state that Kriebel was St Kap in 4./126 between 1.12.42 to 30.9.43 while Doug states he was St Kap in that unit between 9.43 and 9.44. Any comments?

Cheers
Stig

[Doug Stankey]

Yes, the 05.43 date is troubling. I can only conclude that this is wrong. It should read 07.43.

Regarding Kriebel as Staka 4./126, I went looking for who had been the successor and found none. Therefore, I expect that the 09.44 date is likely correct.

DGS

[byron-]

i am coming now to this conclusion:

2./Aufkl.Gru. 125 became 4./S.Aufkl.Gr.126 30.09.1943, (? 07.43)

St.Kpt. 2./Aufkl.Gru. 125, 04.41-11.42 Hptm. Rolf Lemp
St.Kpt. 2./Aufkl.Gru. 125, 11.42-30.09.43 Oblt. Paul Kriebel and than continued in the same duty as St.Kpt. of 4./S.Aufkl.Gr.126 till the End in Greece (10.44) according Doug

any other opinion?

[Larry deZeng]

The renaming of Aufklärungseinheiten to Seeaufklärungsgruppen und Staffeln occurred in May 1943 with the units receiving notification of this during the first week of May. These notifications came from General der Luftwaffe beim Oberbefehlshaber der Kriegsmarine (L.In. 8). I have seen these so I know it's factual. Anyway, either by intention and with permission or unofficially, some or all of the units concerned began using their new designations immediately or almost immediately in May 1943. Example:


Stab/Aufklärungsgruppe 125
May 1943: renamed Stab/Seeaufklärungsgruppe 125 at Constanta, however the order formalizing this change in designation (Gen.St.d.Lw.-Gen.Qu.2.Abt. Nr.9281/43g.Kdos.) was not issued until 13 July 1943.


Now, why the nearly 10-week delay between the notifications of May 1943 and the 13 July date of the order? Beats me, but bureaucratic delays of this sort were not unusual when coordination had to take place between two different branches of service, in this case OKM and Ob.d.L. Also, 9281/43g.Kdos. undoubtedly contains an effective date and a reference to the earlier notifications and that would help clear up the confusion. This order may still exist in the Skl./OKM records because those are far, far more complete that the largely destroyed Luftwaffe records.


If anyone can produce this order or add to this discussion with well-sourced and documented information, it would be appreciated.

[Larry deZeng]

Postscript

Quoting from the KTB of General der Luftwaffe beim Ob.d.M.:

The month of May [1943 - HldeZ] also brought the unified renaming of all Aufklärungsverbände (See) into Seeaufklärungsgruppen and Seeaufklärungsstaffeln.

Kurowski, Franz - Seekrieg aus der Luft (Herford: Verlag E.S. Mittler & Sohn, 1979), p.249.

[Seaplanes]

As late as mid June 1943 the term Aufklärungsfliegerstaffel was still used.
Quote:
Genst.Gen.Qu. 2.Abt. 9036/43 g.kdos. v. 12.6.43:
Gem.o.a. Bezug wird mit sofortiger Wirkung Aufkl.Fl.St. 1/125 aufgestellt.

The reorganisation of the seaplane units was first ordered by Genst.Gen.Qu. 2.Abt. Nr. 9281/43 gKdos. (IIA) v. 5.7.43
when Aufklärungsfliegergruppen became Seeaufklärungsgruppen.
For the units in Norway this reorganisation did not take place until 10.8.43.

[byron-]

the question that still exists is:
when exactly did 2./125 change to 4./Seeaufkl.Gru. 126 ? End 1943 is too general, more exact info would be needed.