Fake Tail Section and Swastika?

[harrison987]

This sold on eBay recently. The owner "apparently" got it from a vet.

After he got it, he cut it in half so he could sell 2 pieces and make more money.

Nothing about this relic seems German.

- The swastika is sloppy with oversprayed areas (even some areas do not line up correctly). Also, the swastika is painted in 2 halves. So a "half" template was used. You can see the overlap in the 3rd photo

- the interior paint is dark GREEN (which was never used as a primer by the Luftwaffe). And certainly this is not an oxidized RLM02.

- no ink stamps on the aluminum

- strange "stamped" number on the inside (which again I have never seen before.


Seller advertised it as a Ju88 tail (which it clearly is not)...then changed it to Fw190...again wrong...and not Ju87 as far as I can tell.

Does anyone agree with me that this is a forgery? Something someone cut from a US or RAF plane, and then painted the swastika?

[Andy Saunders]

I would say a fake.

For all of the reasons you state!

It certainly is not Junkers 87, either, just to rule that out, as I have a genuine one on my office wall.

There is a lot of money in swastika panels and there are many forgeries out there. I have seen some quite good ones, but they always fall down for being on entirely spurious metal panels. Generally, the rivet lines and panel joints don't match any known German aircraft and the reverse (usually) reveals the truth that this is from a non-German aircraft. I have even seen bits of Cessna 172's used in the past! The type of paint and paint running through tears and rivet holes into the reverse are obvious clues on some.

Sorry, but this 'aint the real deal.

[Tapper]

Oh yes! I would say a fake for sure. I know of one Ebayer who is passing off "relics" with false details.

How much did this go for on Ebay

[philippe1]

there are indeed fakes but remember that the germans have used captured american planes and they painted the german cross on for recognition. the opposite was also done by the usaaf.
maybe you have to search if those numbers found inside have any sence in american parts numbers ?

[stephen f. polyak]

Call me odd-man out! Having owned six Luftwaffe real-deal tail sections representing three a/c types (I'm "down" to four panels at present), and having seen/examined countless others (both cloth and metal, some real and some believed/obviously fake) over many years, in my judgement it's probably OK. Nothing I can see gives 100% proof otherwise. And, no, I do not have any connection to this item or its seller. Looks like a rather typical, composite fabricated, hastily painted, late war example to me - inside and outside. Let the thread continue, I'm sitting down . . .

[harrison987]

Hi Steve,

But...very few aircraft flew with that style of swastika. And NO German aicraft had a dark green interior, NOR had swastikas painted in 2 halves. They did have templates, but they were full templates, not a "half" swastika.

Late-war aircraft, did not have interior primer as of 1943 (date I am not 100%). It was left as bare aluminum to speed production time. All late Me109, fw190, me262, etc. were not painted. And certainly not in a Dark Green. RLM02 was a light grey...so even if this had oxidized due to age, it certainly would not have turned to a very dark green.

One of the other problems is the seller lied about where he got it from. I just spoke to someone who was interested in this panel last year, when it was owned by someone else. This "someone else" was NOT a vet as the new owner is claiming. it was an other dealer.

So...made up story of who he got it from does not look good. Also, if this was 100% original...why cut the thing in half? surely anyone who buys a 100% original tail section, with vet history, is not going to chop it in half.

I suspect he knew it was fake...and wanting to get his money back, chopped it into 2 pieces.

[Andy Saunders]

Steve

I'm with Harrison987 on this one. I don't much like those cheese-head rivets, either. They don't look too Germanic to me. And what type COULD this be from? It must be mighty obscure (and rare!) because that rivet/panel line fits nothing I can find. The interior grey/green does not look to be the usual RLM Grey to me, but does look very American.

I wouldn't give you $10 for it, personally.

I am confused a little, though. In the first image(s) it seems to be both sides of the fin with port and starboard skins still in place. In the other images it seems to be just one side with the ribs cut down the middle and just one skin. Or is it just me? Am I missing something here???

I'd like to be shown wrong on my views, though, Steve!

[philippe1]

an idea:
if you compare the inner green colors to american "inner greens "
would it make any sence that the swawtika was painted on a american plane taken by the germans like it happened during war?
this is only a sugestion coz as all of you are saying (and i agree) that the inner colors aren't german.....
maybe we have to think in the opposite direction ?

[stephen f. polyak]

I saw that in the views too. I think we are seeing the tail before and after it was sectioned; a careful look will show (when intact) both sides with differences.

I didn't reply to prove anyone wrong (in fact, Mike's a friend), just to offer my own opinion. I offered that it's "probably OK" - my opinion - nothing more, nothing less. Given only these these photos (forget dealer tall tails), I am sill open-minded. Actually, I could care less if it's real or not. No problem.

It's said, one should buy the item, not the story; opinions are free and usually worth as much.

[Andy Saunders]

Well said, Steve!

Sorry. Didn't mean to come across in any kind of strident way but having re-read my post I'm sorry if it seemed rather opinionated.

Having re-read Mike's post I now realise that he said it was sectioned into two halves. For me, that pretty much convinces me its a fake. Surely, unless one was terminally stupid, one wouldn't cut something like this in half. Would one? Unless, I suppose, the vendor thought they could get two bites at the cherry by selling two swastika panels.

Anyway, for what its worth, its only my opinion its a fake but I do like the "buy the item, not the story" quote!