History Of Spitfire Engine

[Tumper]

Hi

I am trying to trace the identity of an engine which some years ago was stored at the Botolphs Bridge Inn which is located at Lower Wall Road, West Hythe Hythe, Kent.

This engine was stored there many years ago and was I am told shown at the Wrotham Steam Fair ?, a few times.

Anyone know the id of the Aircraft or the owner I know it's a long shot, I trust answering is not a problem here



Thanks

[Andy Saunders]

I think an engine that has been recently linked (possibly) to this specific RR Merlin was recently sold on e-bay. Am I correct?

I think there may be some question mark hanging over its provenance and ownership if I am thinking of the same engine.

[Tumper]

Wow how very astute you are, yes it is alleged that an engine was allegedly misappropriated from the above premises last seen been taken away behind a brown vehicle, it may or may not have been one sold on ebay I am trying to establish the facts behind it.

I have asked about this on another forum only for very strange things to occur there

[Andy Saunders]

This engine was supposed to be from the Spitfire of 92 Squadron lost at Postling Wents, Kent, on 12 October 1940. At least, that is how it was described on e-bay. I am by no means certain that it was from this aeroplane, but I could be wrong. I have an original 49 MU report that points very strongly away from it being from that aeroplane.

Either way, my understanding is that the e-bay vendor stated it to have been recovered from this crash site but information subsequently emerged on another forum to possibly link this engine with one that was stolen some years ago from a Kent pub.

I cannot help with whom the original "owner" was and from whom said engine was allegedly stolen. However, it would be interesting if some clues could emerge as to who this person was and to know whether the engine sold on e-bay was one and the same.

Clearly, a sensitive area. However, lets hope that if some nefarious deeds have been exposed through e-bay trading of a supposed Battle of Britain relic then the guilty party (ies) and victims (e-bay buyer and previous owners) might now be identified.

Someone must know!

[Tapper]

Hi Andy,

Well said, Ebay is a great trading area but my big hate is people posting knowingly false information just to increase the value.
Its far better to simply state "history lost" as false info will follow that item through time and deceive all.
Like you I know of several lying traders and it winds me up to the point I have even emailed winning / high bidders to warn them

The 109 tyre I sold without history acheived a price I am still recovering from, I had to check I wasnt including the aircraft too!!!...so who needs to fib?

[Andy Saunders]

I don't think it is possible any longer to contact other bidders, is it Tapper?

There are some known offenders, and we recently had a piece of Dornier 17 that was painted to represent a portion of Messerschmitt 109 swastika. A great deal of other forged 1940 paperwork was recently listed but removed by the seller after I flagged-up that is was fake.

Fortunately it is sometimes possible to warn buyers through forums like this about doubtful e-bay items, although some forums take a dim view of these issues being raised in a public spirited way - as I recently discovered to my cost!

[spitfireman]

Originally Posted by Andy Saunders

I don't think it is possible any longer to contact other bidders, is it Tapper?

I bid up to £850 for that very engine and luckily didn't win it. I think all bidders are now automatically anonymouse which makes it difficult to warn people.

[Andy Saunders]

It turned up (briefly!) at a Kent Museum a few days ago whilst en-route to the (unknown) buyers establishment whence it was evidently due to be broken up for the pistons.

That information reliably came to me this morning from the museum in question, where the purchasers of said engine called-by for a visit en route home with newly purchased engine and were happy to show museum staff their new acquisition in the back of a van. At that time the museum staff knew nothing of the shenanigans that have since gone on over that engine. Evidently, apart from extracting the pistons, the buyer intended to incorporate parts into a Merlin they are building as a (presumably "static") runner. So that may give some clue as to who has it. However, they are clearly innocent if there is anything "dodgy" about this engine. What we have is an engine that, on the face of it, has a history that does not seem to match knowledge established from contempoarary RAF MU records. Further, we have information from a third party that the engine offered on e-bay was believed to have been one that was stolen some years ago. Of course, the question of the stated engine identity may yet be proven to be correct and it remains possible the engine sold was not the one reported as stolen. Either way, there do seem to be questions that have been raised but not answered and some respected sources have also raised questions in relation to the seller. They are not questions that are being raised here, although it might be helpful to all concerned if he came forward. I feel certain that he inhabits this site and he might well be able to satisfactorily put to rest the concerns that many of those involved in the UK historic aircraft have expressed - both privately and publicly.

What all this boils down to is that we have an engine that has a question mark hanging over it and a sale that has caused a furore in other places. That furore, and the associated shenanigans, has evidently resulted in some unknown parties, for their own reasons, not wanting the matter discussed - to the extent that they have succesfully closed down quite reasonable discussion on the matter that has gone on elsewhere. One wonders why?

This forum is probably not the right place to air all of those issues in the manner they have been discussed in other places, but hopefully Ruy will view the issue as one that is of legitimate concern to forum users - many of whom are e-bay buyers. Meanwhile, one can only say that it is a case of caveat-emptor.

[lancasterman]

Lot's of dodgy stuff on ebay Andy.. Have you seen the genuine RAF Officers hat with unknown badge? Looks awfully like the 50s british postie hat!

[Andy Saunders]

I've been rumbled again, eh, Lancasterman.......!!!!