Luftwaffe copy the Merlin

[Tapper]

Near the end of WW2 the Russian's captured four downed US B29's that had strayed off course into Russian owned lands. Within a short period the Russian's after spotting how good an aircraft it was had copied it rivet for rivet and put it into service as the TU-4.

Why then in the 1940's when the Luftwaffe captured many many Merlin engines and they must have realised it had far more scope for development than the Luftwaffe liquid cooled engines, as the latter stages of the war showed.

Why did they not just do an exact copy of the Merlin, and why stop with this, they captured and admired the Mosquito, Mustang, Tempest, Lancaster etc.....?

Was it down to National pride only, the shortages of materials did not really affect the production of aircraft production, even late in the war during the RAF and US bombing campaigns?

I will be interested in your thoughts on this.

[Don Pearson]

It took the Soviets nearly 5 years to accomplish this. Most of this during peacetime.

Don

[Graham Boak]

The Merlin was not a great advance over the German engines, which showed very much the same growth potential, and much the same power output at any given time. It was smaller than German engines, and relied upon 100 octane for its high power (thanks to an excellent supercharger using rare metals). It was easier to develop their own first-class designs than to change over production lines, at considerable cost in lost production, for something no better than their own, and relying upon exotic materials that they had no access to.

The B-29, however, was at least one complete generation ahead of Russian heavy bombers in airframe and systems technologies. It should be pointed out that the Tu 4 did have Russian engines and armament.

[Tapper]

Hi Graham,

The Germans were experts at starting up and moving production lines so I can't see this as being the main reason. Interesting on the exotic materials in the supercharger though, the Germans had no access at all?
As for taking 5 years to develop the TU-4 from the B29 this was only started in earnest once the cold war began and the Russians found themselves needing a quick fix.
The Merlin was something that production could have been started. And I would guess, not that difficult in mating to the 109, just as the British did with the then average Mustang, to turn it into possibly the best offensive fighter of WW2.

I just dont understand the logic of not directly copying when you are fighting for survival. Im my eyes the hard work of initial development and design have been done

[Graham Boak]

It isn't that easy. Where is the factory space that is not fully occupied? You want to build a new factory, where are the planners and builders to do this? Where are the machine tools that are not already being used full time? Where are the workers who are not already working overtime? You have to close down one line, clear the space, build up the new line, train the workers. This will take up to six months, in which time little is being produced, so the equivalent production is lost. When production does start, the workforce will be at the start of the learning curve, so initial production rates will be low. Your suppliers will not be set up to provide foreign technologies. Plus what you are then building is at least one more year out of date.....

No, Gemany did not have access to various exotic metals. This was partly what gave problems with the jet engine programme.

But the real question is why. You have this notion that the Merlin was something spectacularly better than what the Germans had. This isn't true. Yes, it was good, particularly the supercharger, but didn't offer them more power than they were already getting from their own industry - and their engines ran on poorer fuel.

[Horst Weber]

Good evening Tapper !

Interesting question but I must agree Graham almost totally. There were three German factories, which developt and produced hight-performance piston-engines: Junkers with JUMO 211/213, Daimler-Benz with DB 601-605 and BMW (radia) 801. In development was jet-engine JUMO 004.

How and Why should a situation appear, that anyone in the German military equipment providement offices could come in war-times to the decision, to cut existing piston-engines lines, only to built up production-lines with all consequences in a time of war.

This would have been slightly thinkable in 1940 or 1941, but never under the circumstances of the years 1943 - 1945, when much of the key production went to the underground. This was much more important, than thinking about building the Merlin because the engine is some lighter and has a good supercharger, but no access to key-materials.

In this matter of questions, I could ask, why Great Britain, the USA and Russia never equipped their forces with own-built machineguns MG-42 of German origin, which are light, well designed, thrustworthy, cheap in production and with a high firepower of 1.200 rounds a minute. The German Army and many other forces are using this weapon for military purposes up to now.

Well, there are more examples like that, widespread all over the military world. It not so easy, to change a good-oiles own machienery-system in war-times with harsh changements.

All the best !

Horst Weber

[Flitzer]

"National pride"? I'm sure at the time they evaluated the Merlin they could see that there was more potential in continuing development of their axial flow jet engines such as the Junkers Jumo 004.

[sergeypopov2566]

in August 1942 over station Касторная were shot down 9 Russian bombers.
what you know about this?

[Nick Beale]

Also ...

Imperial measurements in Britain vs. metric ones in use throughout German industry? (We haven't quite cracked that one, 70 years on).

Deutsche Industrie Normen (DIN) vs. British Standards Institute (BSI) standards?

[Birgir Thorisson]

The US did seriously consider copying the 15mm Mauser aircraft gun. The British "Comet"-tank was suposedly heavily influenced by the German Panzer III.
Neither was successful copying.
On the other hand, the japanese bettered the original when they copied the .5 Browning machine gun. They turned it into a very successful 20mm cannon.

I have often wondered about a similar course of action, with better prognostication.
What would have happened if the French had licenced the Spitfire and the Merlin in 1937 to solve their fighter problems?
There was a longstanding tradition of such co-operation between Britain and France, so supposedly, the respective industries were quite capable of producing each others designs, despite the different measuring systems.

Birgir Thorisson