He-111 crash 16.12.1943 Croatia

[raus_punk]

oi!

I'm new on this forum and I need help from You.
We found crash site of one He-111 north of town Crikvenica. From Partisans sources we know that this He-111 crashed on 16.12.43 and that 5 man were killed. Does anyone know something more about that plane.

thanks
Raus

[raus_punk]

oi!

Sorry is not 1943, but 16.12.1942.

Raus

[Brian Bines]

Hi,

I do not know if this one would fit listed as lost under Oberbefehlshaber Sud missing on Feindflug following fighter attack - 16-12-1942 He111A-3 ( Perhaps a missprint H-3 ?) B3+DY of 10/KG54 wn 3204 Ff Ltn Konrad Fritz, B.Gef. Otto Westholz, Bf Uffz Kurt Fally, Bs Gef Heinrich Wagner, Bm Uffz Josef Nupppepeter all missing.
Not certain if this would have been lost over Croatia but it was the only He111 I could find on 16-12-1942,

Source:- Luft QM's returns dated 30-12-1942

Regards

Brian Bines

[Stig Jarlevik]

Brian

The Wnr certainly fits the He 111H-3 range but I wonder if the mistake was due to the fact that the unit also operated Ju 88A? Perhaps even the A-3 model?
According to www.ww2.dk the main base was Grottaglie in Italy which is pretty way south. At this time Croatia feels a bit "opposite direction" if you know what I mean, but I suppose anything is possible.

Cheers
Stig

[Brian Bines]

Hi Stig,

Checked Radtke's book in the crew losses he has Uffz Niggemenn listed as 1.Wart and mission as Versorgungsflug Tripolis. In the aircraft loss section he has He111-? 3204 B3+OX ( definitely B3+DY in QM losses) unknown/crash in sea by Tripolis. Looks like the wrong one,

Brian Bines

[Larry deZeng]

I have a day-to-day record of all air activity in Croatia involving the Luftwaffe, the Croatian Air Force and the Allied air forces (notice the absence of one key player). There is no record of any aircraft coming down in northern Dalmatia on or around either date (16 Dec 42 or 16 Dec 43).

My guess is that this is an Italian Air Force plane (the missing key player from my records) that was misidentified by the Partisans.

L.

[raus_punk]

oi!

First, thanks on your replies.
Second, few more things. Partisans have just identified this plane like
" German bomber and that 5 man were killed ". After when we visited crash site we found a hundreds of small pieces and we identify that this parts are from He-111. Also in this parts we found Italian money - Lira, and
" Nivea " creme produced in Italy. From eyewitnesses we heard that bodies were in plane and that one man buried bodies somewhere in wood near plane, if that is true, crew is still MIA.

Also Lary because You have day per day document for Croatia can I ask You for more informations?

Thanks
Raus

[Larry deZeng]

Hi Raus -

Glad to help provided it doesn't take much time. Time is the one thing I do not have much of. My "daily entries" are mainly from the Luftlage section of the Heeresgruppe E/Heeresgruppe F Tagesberichten. There is very little for 1941 to about January 1943 because there was not much air activity over Yugoslavia. Also, not all of the Tagesberichten survived or were found. But if I have something for a particular day, then maybe I can try and answer your question. Bear in mine that the Luftlage entries are not to be compared with the much more detailed entries that would have appeared in the reports of Fliegerführer Kroatien, Luftwaffenkommando Südost or Feld-Luftgaukommando XXX, but unfortunately those were destroyed at the end of the war.

May I assume that you have already read the following and are thoroughly familiar with the air war over Yugoslavia, 1941-45?


Frka, Danijel, Josip Novak and Siniša Pogačić. La Force Aerienne Croate 1941-1945. Editions Avions – Collection Histoire de L’Aviation No. 10. Outreau: Editions Lela Presse, 2000.
And the numerous articles written on the subject in Vojnoistorijski glasnik by
Mikić, General-potpukovnik avijacije Vojislav.

Larry

[Tomislav Haramincic]

Hi Larry and Raus,

According to the spare parts number that was found on a part around the crash site, the plane was definitely a He 111. My guess is that the crash date must be wrong. Partisan reports also contain many errors, but usually the could very well tell the difference between german and italian uniforms. Of course, if the bodies were burnt and unrecognizable, there was again a possibility for an error.

@Raus
What is the source of the partisan report? Have you cross-checked the partisan report with the "Dnevni izvještaji" issued by the command of the croatian armed forces? Aircraft crashes were included in these reports, although not much more detailed than the partisan ones.

[Brian Bines]

As Tomislav says perhaps the date is wrong could the 16th. be the date the Partisans found the wreck rather than the crash date. Looking in the Ulf Balke KG100 book it shows a He111 6N+AA missing on a transfer flight believed came down in the Med. Sea this had eight men on though.