Bodensee He177

[DaveM2]

All

Does anyone have details of the history of the He177 wreck discovered in the Bodensee some years ago, a sonar scan in one of the German magazines showed it to be relatively intact, but what are the circumstances of the loss?. There is a rumour that it may be the 'Cognac Bomber' that ditched on the way back from France with crates of the liquor. This Cognac Bomber has also been described as being a Do 217 or a Ju 52 as well.

TIA
Dave

[ChrisMAg2]

Dave,
IIRC there were no details on this plane known. It was never remotely explored, because of the depth (some 180m) and it's postion (german, swiss or austrian claim). Only the sonar scan is verified. So, it could be any one He 177.

[Brian Bines]

Dave,

Slightly off your subject but the book ''So, We Bombed Moscow Alone'' describes how in a raid on London in 1944 the He 177 of Corporal Pomber (Fw. Franz Pomper missing 25/26-4-1944 ?) was attacked by a Nightfighter. During violent evasive flying the cases of champagne carried in the upper gunner's position went pop, the drink was being carried as the aircraft took off from Chateaudun to attack London and after land at Rheine. The He 177 shot down at Lamberhurst Kent on 24/25-2-1944 was reported to have carried a roll of silk.
I vaugely remember a television report in the 1950's of a Luftwaffe bomber being lifted from a lake in Germany/Switzerland ? it was reported to have been shot down late in the war. As I remember it was hoped to find gold, a photo of a crewman recovered in a wallet was shown in the report. Possibly the aircraft was twin-finned my memory is not that good, anyone got an i.d. on this one,

Regards

Brian Bines

[DaveM2]

Thanks, I take it there are no comprehensive loss listings for the He177 then?

Dave

[Brian Bines]

Dave,

The He 177 carrying the drink made it home on this mission after evading the nightfighter. I have looked through what NVM's I have for He 177 units and could not see one ditched in the Bodensee, so I assume the crew survived,

Brian Bines

[Peter D Evans]

Hi Dave,

The closest published list can be found in Appendix 6 of "Heinkel He177, 277, 274" by Griehl & Dressel [AirLife, 1998]. Although the 10 pages lists WNr's, models, codes, dates, unit and fate, details of the reason for a loss are one or two word reasons like crashed, enemy action, fighter kill etc, etc. If you would like a scan of these pages, please PM me as I already have then .zipped from a previous discussion on this type over on the LEMB

Cheers

Peter D Evans
LEMB Administrator

[David E. Brown]

Interesting stories here.

They remind me of a story a former IV./KG 55 pilot told Dave Wadman and I some years ago. He was telling us about the unit's transfer form Dijon France to Minsk in May-June 1944 and that they stuffed all the aircraft with supplies. We assumed that he was describing transportation of critical items like mail, food and munitions to which after a roaring laugh replied that it was something FAR more important - booze!

I would assume that there were many such flights and cargos within the Luftwaffe - and other airforces - particularly on flights originating outside Germany from such places as France, Denmark, etc.

Cheers,

David

[Boris Ciglic]

Well, such things were not done exclusively in Luftwaffe and in WWII. Croat AF aircraft were extensively used for all sorts of "smuggling", mostly of sugar and tobacco. Few years ago the Organization I worked was visited by business associate from Belgium. During the informal conversation we came on the subject of aviation and it happened that his father was Mirage III pilot. Among other things he told me that whenever his father flew to Italy he would return with delicious food and wine which he used to pack into the parachute compartment in the tail, and which were much more expensive in Belgium. Of course, the parachute was removed any time he went there.

[Franek Grabowski]

Well, I recall reading of a Soviet Su-7 pilot who crashed in Poland, delivering Polish Su-7 aircraft for overhaul into SU. He was most disappointed that his entire load of Zaporozhec (or ZAZ something) tires went to eternity, when he had to eject! The best stories of smuggling will be of Takoradi run anyway.

[maestro]

Dear Dave et al,
I came across your thread just recently but feel my information on the subject is still valid and of maybe of interest to you all.

As it has been a while since the article was published in FLUGZEUG (3/99) I would like to lay some groundwork for better understanding:
Attachment 1866, Attachment 1867

The article shows a Side Scan Sonar(SSS) scan of an Aircraft. To illustrate my case more dramatically I oriented the picture in the fashion the SSS fish would look at the target:
Attachment 1861

The target shows a faint but unmistakable unique shadow against the bottom. I knew I saw this shadow before somewhere and found it here in a scan that was passed around in other forums as an unidentified aircraft found in the North Sea. If you had to make a guess you would probably think it was a PB4Y Privateer with a distorted aspect ratio. But please note the shadow and engine configuration....
Attachment 1862


This scan here is the same aircraft as all of the above, taken with a Marine Sonic SSS, revealing beyond any doubt the identity of a PB4Y2.
Attachment 1863
Here is a close up scan of it just for the fun of it:
Attachment 1864

Hmmmm...how does a Privateer get to the bottom of Lake Constance you wonder? Before you run off to the Bodensee I have to tell you the rest of the story.
The aircraft sits in Lake Washington, Seattle, USA and became a fave practice target for a number of SSS manufacturers. It just so happend, that WESMAR built the system model 700 in the mid 90's and used the "He177"picture in the sales literature of the day. It was quite common for the less expensive systems, lacking the capability to correct for speed, to produce distorted pictures but never the less intriguing.....

Now that I have you scratching your heads I might as well burst the bubble of the COGNAC-BOMBER: The highly unusual story of the schnapps laden kite that ditched in the lake originated in the small circle of dedicated SCUBA pioneers, diving the murky depth of the lake in the early 70's. The rumour of Cognac bottles from a Luftwaffe bomber was picked up by the local authorities in Constance and a public outcrie to protect and bring home the fallen Luftwaffe personnell (the skelletons were still holding on to the controlcollum...!) evolved. An official investigation by the Swiss authorities yielded nothing of substance however. It was simply a hoax......
How do I know all of this? Well,... I was there.

Not to give up all hope, especially you Dave, as there are still at least three documented but undiscovered "targets" of WW2 aircraft in the lake. Martin Schaffner, the notorious Swiss entrepreneur that rescued at least 11 (eleven) wrecks during the 50's from the lake, did not find them all.....
I have to save something for later and need to close for now my friends.

Cheers,

Maestro