Black-painted Heinkels!

[Brian]

Hi guys

During 1940, Aufkl.ObdL operated at least one, if not more, black-painted He111s to convey spies into Britain by parachute. There were, it seems, possibly five such missions most, if not all, flown by Hptm Kurt Gartenfeld.

Can anyone confirm the number of such Heinkels which, I understand, had armament and bomb racks removed. It has been suggested that no national markings were carried.

Over to the experts, please!]

Cheers
Brian

[Brian]

Hi guys

No response yet!!

I now understand that two Heinkel IIICs joined Aufkl.ObdL for these missions, both former civil aircraft, Does this help to identify them?

Cheers
Brian

[Nick Beale]

Originally Posted by Brian

Hi guys

No response yet!!

Cheers
Brian

Knowing where you got the idea from in the first place would perhaps help, Brian.

[Brian]

Hi Nick

Mentioned in various accounts related to the 1940 clandestine missions.
Apparently Heinkels previously operated by Group Rowehl in civilian guise.
He111C-03 (1830) D-AXAV ex-Lufthansa may have been one of possibly two involved.

I can't tell you more - that's why I'm making enquiries!!

Cheers
Brian

(PS away from home for a few days as from tomorrow, hence any further input/response/acknowledgement will be delayed!)

[Adriano Baumgartner]

Hello BRIAN!
I recommend this book, which I read a year ago. Unfortunately it is back home and I will be unable to have a look for at least some 30 days. ( sorry! )
Airborne Espionage: International Special Duty Operations in the Second World War by David Oliver (Hardcover - Apr. 21, 2005)
Buy new: $46.95

10 new from $5.00
7 used from $7.95

[Nick Beale]

I'd be wary of black-painted aircraft carrying no national markings — they seem to have got everywhere!

I have information from the interrogation of agents dropped in Italy by KG 200's Kommando Carmen. None of them knew what type of aircraft they'd flown in (a Ju 188 in fact) and their descriptions were varied and imaginative. Some did report an all-black aircraft, which I have reason to doubt. However, when you read that they were driven to the airfield at night and boarded the aircraft from underneath, its black undersides were probably all they saw. If they didn't notice nationality markings, maybe these weren't applied under the wings (not unusual in aircraft operating at night).

I can't really think why your Heinkels would have needed camouflage any different from contemporary night bombers of the same type — which could include black undersides and toned down/overpainted codes and markings. Operating over Britain at night, the threats (Ack Ack, fighters) were the same for all of them and no one wanted to be seen.

[edwest]

I've seen a few photos of German aircraft with a good bit of black on the fuselage sides. I'm not certain but I believe they were He 111's. The OSS supposedly flew a few black bombers but the one photo I've seen shows a B 24 with mostly visible markings.

He 111, D-AHAO is illustrated with a small black area near the lower front quarter in the book KG 200 by Geoffrey Thomas and Barry Ketley, along with D-ADAG, which is shown with temporary black painted over the upper surfaces. The source for each illustration is indicated to be photos.



Regards,
Ed

[David Ransome]

Hi,

I concur with Nick on this. The black out paint used was relatively easy to wash/scrub off (but making the 'black men' even blacker apparently) and easier to apply. It could be applied with a soft sweeping brush, usually over any markings or undersurfaces which would otherwise reflect light well. As far as I am aware aircraft were usually pulled from regular use, military or civilian, during the early years of the war at least.

David