Oblt. Maue 5./StG77 DKiG

[Richard Mills]

I am currently looking for information surrounding Oblt. Maue 5./StG77 in June-42, the man who in several books is creditied with scoring a direct hit on Maxim Gorky I in the Southern port of Sevastopol.

I know of the award of his Ehrenpokal and DKiG however, I am trying to establish any further details such as subsequent units following 5./StG77 and in fact any other pertinent information at all.

As always, any help is gratefully received. Thank you.

Regards Richard.

[Doug Stankey]

A review of our files shows nothing about this fellow, so apparently he never held a post and/or didn't survive long enough. However the Kracker Archive came through with the following:

Maue, AlfredOblt. 5/StG-77 Ju 87D DK-G(8/21/42), EK 1 & 2, Dive Bomber Operational Clasp - Scored a direct hit on a gun tower, Coastal Battery 30, at Fortress Maksim Gorkiy (Sevastopol) on 17 June, 1942. It was thought he had put the tower out of action, when in fact, they ran out of ammunition.

That is all I can find about this fellow.


DGS

[Richard Mills]

Doug

Thank you as ever for taking the time to reply.

I am interested in Oblt. Maue as I have a Wehrpass to a StG77 Bordfunker who was KIA over Sevastopol on 02-06-1942. The entry recording him as 'gefallen' is signed by Maue as Oberleutnant u Staffelkapitain 5./StG77 and consequently I wish to see if I can establish any details.

The books 'Stopped at Stalingrad' and 'Black Cross Red Star' both mention he is credited with a direct hit on Maxim Gorky I, but not that the battery had already run out of ammunition!

Thanks again.

Regards Richard.

[thenelm]

Ju 87B-1, 347, Maue, Ltn. Alfred, , 4., St.G. 77, , , , , 09-May-42, WIA due to Flak., , Lfl.4/Eins.Osten, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #6)-Vol.9, , bei Leninskoje, 30%, F, , ,
Ju 87D-3, 0870401, Maue, Oblt. Alfred, , 5., St.G. 77, , , , , 04-Jan-43, Stkp. Crew killed in crash, cause unknown. 1 Army officer also KIC., This a likely B?, Lfl.4/Eins.Osten, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #8)-Vol.13, , Snamenka, 100%, H, Bf Fw. Huhndorf, ,

[Doug Stankey]

I thought it curious that we had no record of a Staka of 5./St.G. 77 so I looked into it further. I extracted the following concerning who held this position:

Oblt./Hptm. Heinz-Günter Amelung (DKG) ( 01.09.40 - 05?.07.42).
Oblt. Karl Fitzner (DKG, RK) (? - 11.42 - 08.07.43 KIA). -Stafü
Oblt. Günther Ludigkeit (DKG) (? - 07.43 - 15.10.43).

Thus at the time in question , 06.42, the position was still held by Amelung. If Maue was Staka, it was almost certainly sometime during the period, 07.42 to 11.42. To further assure you of the reliability of this analysis, here is what we have about Amelung:

AMELUNG, Heinz-Günter. (DOB: 09.04.17 in Magdeburg).
1935 trained at the naval school at Flensburg.
1936 trf from the Navy to the Luftwaffe.
16.08.37 Lt., training completed, assigned to II./St.G. 165 at Schweinfurt.
05.39 now in II./St.G. 77.
01.08.39 Oblt., in St.G. 77.
01.09.40 appt Staka 5./St.G. 77 (to 7.42).
22.11.41 or 24.11.41 Oblt., awarded DKG, II./St.G. 77.
01.02.42 promo to Hptm.
05.07.42 appt Ia in Stab/St.G. 77 and appt escort officer to Generaloberst von Richtofen.
15.07.42 Hptm., awarded Ritterkreuz, Staka 5./St.G. 77.
01.03.43 appt Ia op 1 Lfl. 4.
14.10.43 appt Ia op/IV. Fliegerkorps.
01.08.44 promo to Maj.
1944-45 instructor with the Luftkriegsakademie Berlin-Gatow.
Served in the postwar Bundeswehr as an Obstlt.
†26.12.64 in München of a heart attack.

Perhaps this clarifies things a bit.

HLdZ
DGS

[hucks216]

I have seen the entry in the Wehrpass that Richard has mentioned and I can confirm that it is dated for the 2nd June 1942 with the unit stamp showing the Feldpost Number for StG 77 and signed by Maue with the stamped title under his signature of Oberleutnant u. Staffelkapitan.
I wonder if the entry was written in by the admin staff and stamped accordingly on the 2nd June 1942 with a space for the Staka to sign & stamp his rank & title later when time allowed which by the time it occured was Oblt Maue a month or so later?
I have seen Gefallen entries in WP's filled in over a year after the man had been killed due to a delay in the admin process.

[Stig Jarlevik]

Richard. Doug and all

Having very few personall sources myself (all second hand), I feel stating certain specific dates are hard to do unless there is a valid source for this in Germany. We have lots of individuals for instance who was so called acting commanders while the post was officially filled by someone else who might have been wounded, on leave or even temporarily assigned to something else. To use a date giving an individuals next assignment can be dangerous, since the person can be "in between jobs", and having a rest in between these two assignments.

Looking in Ritterkreuzträger by Obermaier, I notice for instance that he refrains from saying any date when Amelung left his post as Staffelkapitän. When it comes to Fitzner he specifically states that when he received his RK he was Staffelkapitän with 1./St.G 77 while at his death he commanded 5./St.G 77. Since he received the RK on 27.Nov.1942, the date listed above (11.42) cannot be correct if we are to believe Obermaier.

I myself have no problems as such to see Maue as St Kap of 5./St.G.77 from ca mid 1942 to his death on 4.1.1943. Evidence? None what so ever...

B Rgds
Stig

[Richard Mills]

Gents

Thank you to everyone who has contributed to this thread thus far, the feedback is far more than I anticipated and I have some excellent information as a result.

The holder of the Wehrpass was killed on 02-06-1942 however, the Staffel did not record him as lost until nearly 2 weeks later. Consequently, taking into consideration the amount of time it takes the administration to be completed, it can be safe to assume that a certain period of time may of elapsed upon which time the Wehpass could be processed and record the owner as KIA. I am 100% that the signature is indeed Maue, and of course that at some point he was the Staka however, the exact dates he held this post (acting or substansive) and when he signed the entry do seem to be in doubt.

Thanks again.

Regards Richard.

[Doug Stankey]

The subject of dates of awards or of assignment to a position is a recurring one, and so I will have to repeat the salient points again. The dates for award quoted might be the date of approval or the date of official bestowal or the date of actually physically receiving the award. This is due to the severe time lag in the administration. Similarly, the unit associated with an award is that when the fellow was recommended for the award and so the date can be off by months, even half a year! There is similar confusion about dates of assignment. Is it the date of the order, the date of actually arriving or the date of actually assuming command? The issue of acting commanders contributes to the confusion as these are noted less often.

Yes, citing specific dates is risky but as a rule our records have shown time and again that they are generally consistent as they are based mainly on microfilms of original documents and have not ungone "interpretation" by some author. We will use published material but are careful to try to screen out inconsistencies.

The theorey that Maue was acting Staka from summer 42 to his death in 01.43 may have some truth to it as Fitzner was noted as the Stafü, i.e. not sufficiently experienced to be a Staka. It appears that the issue of just how Maue fits in there requires more evidence.

DGS

[Richard Mills]

This is the page in question which led myself to pose the question in the first place.

Regards Richard.