A couple of ?? RE: Emil Lang's 18 vic day..

[NickM]

Guys:

I am in the process of reading Hannig's 'Luftwaffe Fighter Ace' & right now the book is at the point where Lang & company are flying from a nearly deserted airbase in Kiev; he claimed 18 vics that day in 4 separate sorties;
SO...a couple of questions:

Was Lang's wingman, Uffz 'Fred' Gross the same person as Lt Alfred Gross who was with Lang on the flight where Lang was shot down & killed? Does anyone know what happened to Gross? Did he survive the war? What Vic total?

Second, anyone have access to the Soviet loss records for the day? Any idea what the losses were to flak, fighters & whatnot? From Hannig's account, they personally witnessed Lang shooting down two LaG 5/7 practically in front of them---it also appeared that in many cases the IL2 & fighter unit were totally unaware that there were even LW fighters in the area; of course there were only a rotte of FW's; maybe they were mistaken for La5/7s among the gaggles of Fighters & Fighter bombers?

Another interesting observation by Hannig: at the time of the fighting around Kiev many IL2 units were flying from a forward field--they were so close they'd take off, bomb & return without even bothering to raise their landing gear;

Thanks ahead of time;

NickM

[Boomerang]

Nick:

Donald Caldwell's JG 26 War Diary includes a very interesting account of Lang's last flight, which states that the Alfred Gross who was involved was his long time wingman (Caldwell also concludes that Gross shot down a RAF 41 Squadron Spitfire for his 52nd victory in this combat).

Gross was injured and hospitalised - not aware of his subsequent fate.

I do hope that some information comes to light about Lang's '18 victory day'. According to Caldwell, Lang, as well as being a brilliant pilot and dynamic leader, was very optimistic in his JG 26 victory claims. I will follow this thread very closely - hope some good information turns up!

Cheers

Boomerang

[NickM]

Thanks Boomerang;
Caldwell's book is where I got my question from--so it's safe to assume Fred is Alfred; now...Lang may have been optomistic but Hannig left no doubt as to his skills when He watched Lang shoot down a pair of La5/7 practically in front of them...quick run, a short burst on one then a quick skid & a short burst into the second & both just blew apart & crashed;

NickM

[NickM]

***like, btt, dude***

[Brian Bines]

Some years ago another researcher sorted out the names given in Willi Heilmans book 'Alert in the West'. For Ltm Alfred Gross he had that Gross was posted to JG 26 with Lang and was Lang's long term wingman. Gross was born 4-10-19 ,was awarded the RK in April 1945, flew 175 missions claiming 52 victories (39 in the East). Gross apparantly died on 19-8-47 there was no note of the circumstances.

[NickM]

***btt****

[montana]

Lt. Alfred Gross died of tuberculosis of the peritoneum on August 19th 1947 at Tönning. He was the wingman of Hptm. Lang the day this one was shot down by a Spitfire pilot of the 41 Sqn. Lt. Gross claimed W/O Chattin before being himself shot down by another pilot of this Sqn.

[Flupke]

Hello Montana
You’re right concerning the 41st Squadron , they may claim the loss of Lang .

The 55th FG 38th FS bounced the 2./JG 26 near Zemst and the 338th FS bounced the rest of this flight near Baale , they shot down Kempf not Lang

Regards
Phil

[George Hopp]

Sorry Nick, but am I missing something profound and esoteric in your "***like, btt, dude***'?

[fsbofk]

About those IL-2 missions - similarly, USMC F4Us flying from Peleliu (one of the Palau Islands east of the Philippines) in Sept 1944 provided close air support to Marine ground units on the island. Their targets were so close to the runway that the Corsairs didn't bother to raise their gear. Film footage clearly shows the gear down as the planes drop their napalm on hillside targets.