Plane identification

[echodelta]

My name is Eric Dufrasnes, I'm from Belgium, english not my mother tongue so please my many mistakes.
With my uncle, Jean Dufrasnes, we are making researchs on the aircrafts fallen in our area and specially on Harchies, west of Mons, Belgium.

Among the five crash sites, three are americans and two german.

- 20/11/43
According to D Caldwell in his studies of JG 26, a Me109 G3 (werknummer" 16300, Yellow 2, 11/JG26, Friedrich Hermann (Uffz.) ) was shot down on Harchies by P47 of the 78th FG.
We have the testimony of a women who helped the wounded pilot, and a good localisation of the crash.
We were told that the germans and/or hired local workers tried for a long time, without success, to recover the engine.
Or could it the pressurised cab ??

Late 42, early 43.
Memories are not clear but it was at the end of the year, in the night, between 1200 and 0100.
a german twin engine plane, the pilot ( ? ) and german soldiers have been seen the next morning near the wreck.

From testimonies , we have located the area where the plane end his course, small parts of a german plane can be found on the site :


- small broken aluminium part, with blue paint, with the letters MESSE ( for messerschmidt ??? )

- a circular cap d:5cm, h:2cm with the text
BAUART NACHBAU

SIEMENS LANGE

and FL.32653
B.M. 77 Vert 6g
40 V 25 A
Two pieces found.


- small constructor plate: 6.5cm x 1.3 cm

C. Lorenz AG [ ] –Tempelhof
Werk Nr 3821532 ? Baumuster UF. 10/E
Anf. Z. Ln. 2737B PfL III. 3/6038-1

- small constructor plate: 3.7cm x 1.8 cm

Baumuster U[
FL 27128[
Werck Nr 85628


- part of a german altimeter like the one on
http://www.adsandbrands.com/de/sujet...LITZ/coffset-0

the text : ]SS
]EGLITZ

is still visible.

- a bended dial, d:5cm, with the numbers 0,50,100,150,200,250.
At the bottom, a small window with the red text "fettfrei" .


7.92 ammo were also found, identified as a mix of standart, armorpiercing, incendiary and tracer bullets.
No 20 mm shells found

From the time of crash and parts found, I think an Me110 could be a possibility, perhaps a nightfighter.
On the german fighter gridmap that I have found, Harchies is in square PH

Could somebody help me to find more info on this plane.

Thank you very much.

[ClinA-78]

Hello Eric,

Funny, I know well a Belgian homonymous friend, member of TOCH;

FL.32653= "durchführungsverteiler, 6-polg, bis 25A"

FL 27128= "umformer für PeilG und funklandeanlagen"

The bent dial may be the oxygen pressure indicator

Interesting pieces. This aircraft (Bf 110 F?) is perhaps a material loss for which we don't have any info's about the crew. Moreover we don't know the precise date of fall, which would be a good beginning.

By the way, are you related to Hickman's case whose P-47 crashed nearby?

In this case, a small world indeed.

Best regards

ClinA-78

[echodelta]

ClinA-78

Hi,

I know I have many homonymous, we are three with the same name just in the village.

About Hickman's P47, yes i'm, it's one of the three americans plane.
We have located the crash zone quite well. I have submitted the case and I'm also trying to identify an another american plane with the invaluable help of Armyairforce.com members.
http://forum.armyairforces.com/Falle...n-m198821.aspx


Do you agree with the Me 110 possibility ?
It would be a start to find a list of losses for NJG from sept 42 to march 43 but so far, I have not found such a list on the net, only the victory claims.

Best regards.

Eric

[ClinA-78]

Hello Eric,

The Bf 110 hypothesis is a good one but I am afraid its ID would be difficult to confirm for some reasons (no casualties, no date of fall, etc.). I had such a list but Harchies or surrounding villages aren't mentionned. I have the same problem with ... a Bf 110 nightfighter lost without trace near Binche.

Best regards

ClinA-78

[brommer66]

Hello Eric

Have you contacted the BAHAAT, the Belgian Aviation History Association Archeological Team on this? They have a website at www.bahaat.be and are very knowlegable about everything that happened with respect to the airwar over Belgium. I have been in touch with them a while back on the shooting down of a German nightfighter over Leuven (Louvain). Cynric De Decker is the chairman and he can be reached via email: cynrik@pandora.be.

Hope this is of some help to you.

Regards
Jos

[echodelta]

ClinA-78,

May you explain :

FL.32653= "durchführungsverteiler, 6-polg, bis 25A"

FL 27128= "umformer für PeilG und funklandeanlagen"

I have found this site but I have difficulties to understand

http://www.cockpitinstrumente.de/

FL27128 lead to radioaltimeter ( ?? ) in a Do217 and He111

I will try to mail them.

Eric

[ClinA-78]

Hello Eric,

I am afraid I am not a Germanist nor a translater so explanation for
"umformer für PeilG und funklandeanlagen" should be the transformer (U17) connected to the homing indicator (Peil G) and to a kind of 'landing help'(it could be the radioaltimeter, Fug 101?) Specialist may correct it.

I use to work with some persons you have already contacted on Armyairforce.com forum and concerning the researches in 'Wallonie', we have also efficient researchers. Contact me by PM.

Best regards

ClinA-78

[echodelta]

We have indentified some parts:

FL27128: U8 transformer related to funklandegerat FuBL2
FL27378: base plate for transformer U10E, part of Fug X radio set.

With more precice informations, we are now sure that the first supposed timeframe is wrong. february, march, april 1944 are much more certain, still at night.

Does Messerschmidt put a big and thick constructor plate inside his plane ?
The plate is broken, we have only the letters " MESSE " but we can extrapolate the size, elliptic, at least 15x10 cm.

Could it be a Me 110 nightfighter ??

[ClinA-78]

Hello,

Better to post a picture of your plate.
As said, seems to be a material loss without casualties. You may search for a date in the local archives, such as Gendarmerie reports if still kept and conserved... which is as difficult as to find your 'Messerschmitt' ID.
'MESSE' could mean anything, you need to find other bits.

Best regards

ClinA-78