GREY WOLF: The Escape of Adolf Hitler

[Brian]

Hi guys

Anyone read this book?

I'm ploughing my way through as time permits. About halfway and I must say that I'm impressed, though my knowledge of the period is not good.

What do others think?

Cheers
Brian

[Andrew Arthy]

Hi Brian,

Neil Page has written a review here: http://falkeeins.blogspot.com.au/201...er-distan.html.

Neil mentions that Sir Max Hastings used the words "absolute drivel" to describe the book!


Cheers,
Andrew A.

Air War Publications - www.airwarpublications.com

[Brian]

Hi Andrew

Thanks for the link.

IMHO, to criticize an article or book, one needs to start with an open mind, which clearly Neil and Max did not! Unless one can counter with undeniable facts, I feel that the authors have made a feasible speculation (although I haven't finished reading the book).

I have yet to see an argument that disproves such an escape took place. Those who absolutely deny the possibility are biased, IMHO!

Let's hear from others - and what is your opinion, Andrew?

Cheers
Brian

[edwest]

This book is next on my reading list but much precedes it. Those who ascribe sightings to rumors or some kind of bias, need to do a little work.

In the book, Speaking Frankly (1947) by Secretary of State James F. Byrnes (served from July 1945 to 1947), he describes a meeting where he asks Stalin about Hitler's death. Stalin replies that Hitler is not dead but in either Spain or Argentina.

From a document found in the files of Heinrich Mueller dated 20. April 1945, there is mention of a Special Flight and among the passengers are Hitler, Eva Braun and Martin Bormann. The flight is to be carried out by I./K.G. 200, with the destination given as Barcelona. (See KG 200 by Geoffrey J. Thomas and Barry Ketley, page 166.)

Then there is the FBI report dated June 5, 1947.

"Subject: Adolph Hitler and Eva Braun
Information Concerning"

About an individual who "...was driven to a small community outside of Buenos Aires or Rio de Janeiro which was entirely populated by German people. [blacked out] before a small gathering and at this gathering recognized EVA BRAUN and HITLER sitting at a table." The rest of the report conceals the person's identity but provides clues that he was considered a person of importance within the community when they realized who he was.

On October 12, 1945, General Bedell Smith, Eisenhower's Chief of Staff, stated: "No human being can say conclusively that Hitler is dead."

I recall seeing a photo with a member of the Counter-Intelligence Corps kneeling next to the couch where Hitler allegedly shot himself. The physical traces were unconvincing.



Ed

[Andrew Arthy]

Hi Brian,

I've not read the book, so am not really in a position to offer an opinion on it. It doesn't sound like the kind of history book I'm interested in. It's all well and good to come up with a plausible theory, but you need more than secondary sources and 50 year old memories to prove it.

Neil Page and Larry deZeng both offer solid evidence about the final flights from Berlin, based on logbooks and the work of credible German researchers. I'm not sure that Dunstan and Williams have done so. Their story of the South African-born "128 victory ace" and K.G. 200 member Peter Erich Baumgart (with an SS rank to boot!) should be enough of a warning to any discerning reader that their research is not too thorough.

I'd also recommend reading Larry deZeng's posts in this Axis History Forum thread started by Gerrard Williams: http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtop...?f=49&t=167239. Based on the excellent research of Kössler, Ott and Schlaug, who have spent decades researching Luftwaffe transport operations, there is no evidence whatsoever for transport flights from Berlin after the night of 25/26 April, so I'm not sure how Hitler escaped from Berlin in a Ju 52 two nights later.

Without reading the book I can't offer much more of an opinion, but you never know, perhaps Hitler did live in obscurity in Argentina with his wife and two children to the age of 73 ...


Cheers,
Andrew A.

Air War Publications - www.airwarpublications.com

[mars]

Not even bother Andrew, this is a typical those believe because they want to believe, if "Based on the excellent research of Kössler, Ott and Schlaug, who have spent decades researching Luftwaffe transport operations, there is no evidence whatsoever for transport flights from Berlin after the night of 25/26 April", they only need to ask "Don't you think such an important and secrect flight would be on the record?" and "Do you have any evidence that could abosultely disapprove this flight ever happened?", trying to answer either of these 2 questions you would find you are running in an circle without ending.
But I have to admit that if Hilter did indeed escpae to Spain or Argentina, two of the most powerful countries in the world, then nothing could be done to him, US, UK and Soviet would have no other choice but remain silience.

[edwest]

If I may add the recent examination and test conducted by the Americans on the Hitler skull fragment that was put on display by the Russians:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009...skull-fragment

It was found to be that of a woman. And by definition, secret flights are secret. They are authorized by high authorities and everyone is told to keep quiet.



Ed

[Peedeel]

That skull fragment was dismissed as reasonable evidence long ago. The bullet hole isn’t nearly large enough to be the exit hole of a round fired from a Walther PPK at close range.

Also the fire damage isn’t nearly extensive enough - Hitler's body was almost completely burned, and any surviving piece of skull or bone fragment would have shown far more and extensive evidence of burning than the Moscow fragment.

In addition, if Hitler did escape, he left the bottom part of his head in Berlin, as charred pieces of his lower and upper jaw were unearthed in the German capital in 1945 and matched X-rays of Hitler's skull and teeth, details confirmed by his dentist, Hugo Blaschke.

Dr. Sherovsky in the initial autopsy could find no evidence of a gunshot wound in Hitler’s remains but part of the skull cap was missing. Very conveniently this skull fragment was later recovered from the Führerbunker complete with a single bullet hole.This skull fragment then disappeared from official records only to be recovered at a later date in the basement of the Moscow archives after the fall of the Soviet Union where it was put on show as part of an exhibition on the fall of the Third Reich.

See the evidence at this link:

http://tinyurl.com/cejs9z6

[Brian]

Hi Mars

Couldn't it also be said that those who don't wish to believe, won't believe?

As I said originally, one needs an open mind to start with, otherwise one makes silly statements! IMHO!

Cheers
Brian

[edwest]

As a longtime researcher of matters both military and nonmilitary, it is accurate to say, I must start with a positive mindset. Any good researcher has to. Although the company I work for produces fiction, I am regularly called upon to acquire real-world information to lend an air of plausibility to any book, especially if it is set in a particular era and/or in the time frame of a particular conflict.

The same with this subject. If there is a body of evidence that points to a particular possibility then I follow through, weeding out the unattributed and claims made that, upon closer examination, do not hold up, especially as they regard matters that involve secrecy.



Ed