1939 Victories for JG 53

[Marius]

Hello,
could anybody confirm these victories for September 1939?

9.9. 1./JG 53 Olt.(Lt.) Rupp Bloch ?
20.9. 4./JG 53 Lt.Schulze-Blanck Potez
20.9. 1./JG 53 Hptm.v.Janson Curtiss
21.9. 1./JG 53 Hptm.v.Janson Potez

Regards,
Marius

[John Beaman]

Marius, why don't you go to:

http://lesbutler.co.uk/claims/tonywood.htm

And work out the details for yourself?

[Marius]

John, there is not all correct or complete for the period 1939.

Regards,

[Jochen Prien]

Dear Marius,

according to my present state of research, none of these claims is valid. To the best of my knowledge, no pilot of those mentioned filed a claim under the given dates.

Regards

Jochen Prien

[Marius]

Many thanks. I supposed these claims were given by C.Shores erroneously (see Fledgling Eagles, Grub Street 1991).
But let me ask you the following two claims for JG 53, which seem to be wrong.

25.9.1939 6./JG 53 Fw. Walter Czikowsky 1 Curtiss s.Bienwald (?) 12.20
The date is apparently wrong (or Bretnütz, maybe Schröde s claim is wrong ?).

30.9.1939 5./JG 53 Uffz. Joachim Hinkeldey 1 Curtiss Merzig (?) 17.10
It is hard to believe Hinkeldey achieved this victory at Merzig, because the II.Gruppe did not operate there not a single day. Surprisingly the same 5.Staffel should be at Weissenburg at the same time and apparently was (see the claim of Olt. Rudolf Goy 17.05).

Any comments?
Thanks and many regards,

[Jochen Prien]

Dear Marius,

the two claims you contest are both based on the official RLM claims records as they were analysed by Winfried Bock for our current series.

Czikoksky's claim on the 25th was one of three filed after combating a number of Curtiss from GC II/4, two of which were apparently unfounded as the French lost only one a/c.

The location of Hikeldey's claim may have been listed erronneously, the correct location probably being near Weissenburg too, but I have no proof for this.

Kind regards

Jochen Prien

[Marius]

Hello,
thanks for the info. I think I will get headache with the 24th and 25th.
According to documents (Lageberichte for example) II./JG 53 achieved on the 24th 3 victories (all Curtiss) at appr. 15.30 hours in the area of Bitsch.
On the 25th II./JG 53 claimed 2 victories (in both cases Curtiss) south of Bienwald.

In "Chronik des JG 53" and "Jagdfliegerverbände" we have it the other way round: 2 claims on the 24th and 3 on the 25th. (?)
Therefore my question if Czikowsky`s claim could be wrong on the 25th. Could he have achieved 2 claims on the 24th maybe ?

What official RLM claims records have you used? Eventually a signature of the document could help.

Many thanks in forward and best regards,
Marius