strange questions

[John Beaman]

On another web site, I ran across the following:

The L-4 Grasshopper was so influential to ground battles and the war that the Luftwaffe awarded twice as many "points" towards combat medals for Cub kills as they did for Allied fighter aircraft.

In Europe, the final dogfight of WWII occurred between an L-4 and a German Fi-156 Storch. The pilot and co-pilot of the L-4, Lts. Duane Francis and Bill Martin, opened fire on the Storch with their .45 caliber pistols, forcing the German plane to land. This was also the only known instance of an aircraft being downed by pistol fire during the war.

Are these assertions true?

[Ruediger Kaufmann]

Dear John,

this story comes from the cambat reports of the 5th Armored Division or 84 th Infantry Division.
I think it´s true, because this happend at the last days of the war. They forced the Fi 156 to land. The report said that the L4 landed near the Fi156 too and they captured the German flyers.

Did you know the location ???
It must be somewere between Salzwedel and Brunswig !

Best wishes and Merry Christmas

Rüdiger

[Laurent Rizzotti]

The first assession about the victory point is AFAIK false, but it is true that in 1944-1945 German fighters were often sent chasing artilley spotting AC rather than Allied fighter-bombers.

The second story may be found at many places on the Internet, but according to this webpage (http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=71&t=1282) is coming from the book "The last battle" by Cornelius Ryan. While I like Ryan's book, AFAIK they are more based on personal stories than on official documents. That may explain why in all Internet sites I have found, the precise unit of the involved L-4 is not given, and neither is the date of the event. I will say that if it happens, there should be an official report somewhere.
But by the way, even if it happens, the last dogfight of WWII in Europe very probably happens on the Eastern Front. Soviet pilots reported meeting in the air German aircraft as far as 10 or 11 May.

[Pilot]

based on personal stories

Narrative history have no value?

[Laurent Rizzotti]

Originally Posted by Pilot

Narrative history have no value?

Absolutely not what I was meaning, history is at his best IMHO when official documents and narrative history can be combined.

But in this case, as the narrative history as no date other than "at the end of the war" or something like that, it seems to me that the claim it was the last dogfight of the war is not very strong. And personnal memories tens of year after the event (Ryan wrote in the 60's IIRC) are not so much reliable.

[Pilot]

personnal memories tens of year after the event (Ryan wrote in the 60's IIRC) are not so much reliable

Absolute fact, especially if we have no more person to give their own statement regard to the same thing.

Cheers

[Nick Beale]

Originally Posted by Laurent Rizzotti

The first assession about the victory point is AFAIK false, but it is true that in 1944-1945 German fighters were often sent chasing artilley spotting AC rather than Allied fighter-bombers.

Some examples here.

[John Beaman]

Thanks guys. Most interesting.

[Leendert]

Correct name is Merritt Duane Francies, attached to HQ Battery, 71st Artillery Battalion, 5th Armored Division.

A detailed story here of the happenings on 11 April 1945: http://www.5ad.org/units/Duane%20Francies.htm

Regards and Merry Christmas,

Leendert

[Dénes Bernád]

Quote: "When flights resumed, the 95th Armored Field Artillery Battalion lost one of of it’s liaison Cubs. Both the pilot and observer were killed when their Piper was shot down in flames by 10 Messerschmitt Me-109s."

It always wondered me how can more than max. two fighters shot down a single small target. On the top of this, ten Bf 109s - at that stage of the war - focusing on a single target sounds more than ridiculous to me.

Other question: what was the effective firing range of a .45 Colt? Of course, I did see the quote: "The two planes were so close I could see the Germans'eyeballs, as big as eggs, as we peppered them." However, this scene reminds me a mediocre Western movie, where the good guy (with white hat, for simplicity) knocks off a multitude of stupid bad guys (with black hat) with every single shot of his pistol...

Otherwise interesting story.