Ju 188 Vilna area 13 October 1944

[Laurent Rizzotti]

Hello, I'm searching the unit and identity of a Ju 188 shot down south of Vilna by two pilots of the Normandie-Niemen regiment on 13 October 1944.

A Ju188 was shot down in the area, by 2 French fighters according to a survivor. The crew was :
_ Fw Siegfried Reichel (pilot, KIA)
_ Ludwig Kauffmann (POW)
_ Ofw Eduard Stumpf (KIA)
_ Rother (POW)

A relative of Reichel sent me a letter sent by Kauffmann describing the loss of the aircraft. I have asked him if I may display it or not, and I am waiting for the reply, in case somebody is interested.

Regards

Laurent

[Andy Fletcher]

Hi Laurent, A couple of possibilties, no times given, don't know if the locations fit. Date; Rank & Name; Unit; Claim; Location 13Oct44; Asp Jacques Andre; GC Normandie; shared Ju88; Schirwindt 14Ost44; Asp Francois de Geoffre de Chabrignac; GC Normandie; shared Ju88; S.E. Gumbinnen Hope that helpsWhat unit was Reichel flying with? RegardsAndy Fletcher

[Andy Fletcher]

Sorry about the formatting but for some reason my last few posts have been crushed together.Andy Fletcher

[Kari Lumppio]

Salut!

The Ju 188 was most likely from Luftflotte 1 and as such probably served under Fernaufklärungsgruppe 1.
(see: http://www.ww2.dk/air/recon/fagr1.htm )

AFAIK the foremost Lfl 1 Ju 188 unit at the period was 3./AGr 22. Another Luftflotte 1 reconnaissance unit with the type was 5./AGr 122, but Andrew Mitchell's excellent homepage for the unit ( http://www.luftwaffedata.co.uk/ ) doesn't have this loss listed.

Checking Michael Holm's homepage it looks like neither of these two units had Ju 188 loss "durch Feindeinwirkung".

Taking new direction it looks like that 4.(F)/14 also had Ju 188 and bingo! - the unit seems to have three Ju 188 D-3 losses due enemy in October 1944 ( http://www.ww2.dk/oob/bestand/aufkl/b4ag14.html )

4./14 at the time was based at Wormditt (Orneta, Poland today) and this is some 330 km WSW Vilnius. Possibly "your" Ju 188 came from this unit?


As always with Lfl 1 units from 1944 I would like to hear if any photos are available (probably not?).

Cheers,
Kari

[Laurent Rizzotti]

Originally Posted by Andy Fletcher

Hi Laurent, A couple of possibilties, no times given, don't know if the locations fit. Date; Rank & Rank; Name; Unit; Claim; Location 13Oct44; Asp Jacques Andre; GC Normandie; shared Ju88; Schirwindt 14Ost44; Asp Francois de Geoffre de Chabrignac; GC Normandie; shared Ju88; S.E. Gumbinnen Hope that helpsWhat unit was Reichel flying with? RegardsAndy Fletcher

Hi Andy,

On the 13th, two pilots of GC Normandie (became Normandie-Niemen later), Jacques André and Robert Penverne claimed together a Ju 88 over Schirwindt (95th victory of the unit, 1st of Penverne, 2nd of André, a future ace).

You will find the full list of Normandie's victories on this page:
http://normandieniemen.free.fr/Les_Victoires_confirmees_du_Normandie_niemen.htm

[Laurent Rizzotti]

Originally Posted by Kari Lumppio

Salut!

The Ju 188 was most likely from Luftflotte 1 and as such probably served under Fernaufklärungsgruppe 1.

(see: http://www.ww2.dk/air/recon/fagr1.htm )

AFAIK the foremost Lfl 1 Ju 188 unit at the period was 3./AGr 22. Another Luftflotte 1 reconnaissance unit with the type was 5./AGr 122, but Andrew Mitchell's excellent homepage for the unit ( http://www.luftwaffedata.co.uk/ ) doesn't have this loss listed.

Checking Michael Holm's homepage it looks like neither of these two units had Ju 188 loss "durch Feindeinwirkung".

Taking new direction it looks like that 4.(F)/14 also had Ju 188 and bingo! - the unit seems to have three Ju 188 D-3 losses due enemy in October 1944 ( http://www.ww2.dk/oob/bestand/aufkl/b4ag14.html )

4./14 at the time was based at Wormditt (Orneta, Poland today) and this is some 330 km WSW Vilnius. Possibly "your" Ju 188 came from this unit?

As always with Lfl 1 units from 1944 I would like to hear if any photos are available (probably not?).

Cheers,

Kari

Thanks, Kari, I have an Excel file compiling off losses given by Michael Holm's webpage for October 1944 but didn't think to check it.

Found a total of 28 Ju188 losses to enemy action for the month:
III./KG 26 : 4
4.(F)/14 : 3
3.(F)/121 : 5
3.(F)/122 : 1
6.(F)/122 : 3
Erg.FAGr : 1

[Andyf]

Hello!

5.(F)/Aufklärungsgruppe 122 was based on airfield in Jesau, East Prussia (Oct 1944 - Dec 1944; http://www.ww2.dk/oob/bestand/aufkl/b5ag122.html) and they have 2 Ju 188D-2 on stock, but no losses and tranfers in mentioned time. http://www.xs4all.nl/~robdebie/me163...airfield02.gif

PS Maybe could you help me by similar research?
http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=3256
Fate of my Ju188 D2 nr 150520 could be connected with 4.(F)/14 too!

Cheers
Andrzej

[Charles Bavarois]

Hello Laurent,

4.(F)/ 14 looks pretty good:

Ju 188 D-2, WNr. 150.247, 5F+BM
MIA, location and time not known

Fw Siegfried Reichel, pilot, * 2.3.22
Ofw Eduard Stumpf, Beobachter, * 31.5.10
Fw Ludwig Kaufmann, radio-operator, * 31.5.20
Fw Richard Rother, gunner, *22.2.23

That day another Ju 188 from the same unit crashed 3,5 km SSE Pajewonis (?) returning from a Feindflug, killing ist crew when catching fire.

Information is from NVM

HTH

Carl

[Laurent Rizzotti]

Thanks a lot Carl/Charles, this was exactly what i was searching. By the way I am interested in the details of the other Ju188 loss this same day if you also have them.

I send back your data to the pilot's relative that wrote me, and asked him again if I may communicate the letter he sent me to people interested. But he replied to my original mail more than one month after I sent it to him and he may not reply for a long time this time too.

Best Regards

Laurent