Pe-8 Losses

[James A Pratt III]

During July 1943 4 Pe-8s were shot down by German night fighters. Does anyone know who claimed them? Does anyone have any other info on Pe-8 combat losses? I know about the August 1941 losses during the Berlin raids and during 26/27 Feb 1944 1 was shot down over Finnland by JG 302according to the Finnish Air Force web site. Any help would be welcome.

[Laurent Rizzotti]

During July 1943 German nighfighters made claims over the Eastern Front on the nights of 1-2 (1 PS-84), 4-5 (1 PS-84), 9-10 (1 Pe-2), 11-12 (1 DB-3), 14-15 (2 DB-3, 1 TB-7), 16-17 (4 R-5), 17-18 (2 DB-3, 2 R-5, 2 TB-3, 1 SB, 1 Pe-2, 1 unknown), 18-19 (2 Db-3, 2 U-2,1 Mitchell, 1 PS-84), 19-20 (3 DB-3, 1 Boston, 1 PS-84, 1 unknown), 20-21 (4 DB-3, 3 Mitchells, 3 TB-7, 1 PS-84, 1 TB-3, 1 Li-2, 1 R-5), 21-22 (1 TB-7, 1 DB-3), 27-28 (1 R-5, 1 DB-3), 28-29 (1 DB-3), 29-30 (2 Ps-84) and 31-1 Aug (3 R-5, 1 PS-84, 1 DB-3).

Possible candidates for the Pe-8 may be the TB claims: 5 TB-7 and 2 TB-3 were claimed (By the way 2 TB-7 were claimed over Helsinki by 3./JG 302 pilots (Ofw Egbert Jaacks and Fw Dieter Rusche) during the 26-27 Feb 1944 raid).

The name of the German pilo is known for all the claims above

[Gizmo]

According "JG 301/301" book by Willi Reschke:

"The Helsinki Staffel Claimed two a/c shot down on the night of 16-17 February 1944 and four on the night of 26-27 Februwary. The names of successful pilots are not not revealed by surviving records. Finnish records do reveal, however, that following German pilots of "Operational Detachment Helsinki" were awarded Finnish Pilot's Badge, propably recognition for shooting down Soviet bombers in the Helsinki area :

18 Feb. 1944
Hptm. Richard Lewens

26 Feb. 1944
Ofw. Egberd Jaaks
Ofw. Xavier Neumeier
Ofw Dieter Rusche
Uffz. Werner Dienst

12 Dec 1944
Hptm Karl-Heinz Dietsche
"

[Pawel Burchard]

Originally Posted by James A Pratt III

During July 1943 4 Pe-8s were shot down by German night fighters. Does anyone know who claimed them? Does anyone have any other info on Pe-8 combat losses?

From report of Lfl. 6 for the night 19/20-Jul-1943:
Abschüße: 12 durch Nachtjäger (davon Hptm. Prinz Wittgenstein allein 7 Abschüße);

According to Russian post-war sources 3 four-engined Pe-8 bombers of 45 DBAD (long range bomber divn.) were shot down that night while on sortie against railway junction Orel by German nightfighters (two bombers from 890 DBAP, one from 746 DBAP).

...and from claim lists (courtesy of Tony Wood)
2138 10 km NO Orel 4000 IV./N.J.G. 5 TB-7 Prinz zu Sayn-Wittgenstein (Heinrich) Hptm. anerk. 27
2150 15 km NO Orel 4000 IV./N.J.G. 5 TB-7 Prinz zu Sayn-Wittgenstein (Heinrich) Hptm. anerk. 28
2155 10 km NO Orel 4000 IV./N.J.G. 5 TB-7 Prinz zu Sayn-Wittgenstein (Heinrich) Hptm. anerk. 29

Regards,
Pawel

[James A Pratt III]

Thanks this was just what I wanted.

[Joerg Dietsche]

Originally Posted by Gizmo

According "JG 301/301" book by Willi Reschke:

"The Helsinki Staffel Claimed two a/c shot down on the night of 16-17 February 1944 and four on the night of 26-27 Februwary. The names of successful pilots are not not revealed by surviving records. Finnish records do reveal, however, that following German pilots of "Operational Detachment Helsinki" were awarded Finnish Pilot's Badge, propably recognition for shooting down Soviet bombers in the Helsinki area :

18 Feb. 1944
Hptm. Richard Lewens

26 Feb. 1944
Ofw. Egberd Jaaks
Ofw. Xavier Neumeier
Ofw Dieter Rusche
Uffz. Werner Dienst

12 Dec 1944
Hptm Karl-Heinz Dietsche
"

My father received a Finish medal as a detachment commander in the period 7 April - 15 May 1944 as successor of Hptm Lewens. In this period it is not absolutely clear, if he was on flying status. On 29 Mar 1944 he was shot down near Stendal in his Bf-109G-6, 440160, and probably his posting at Malmi-Helsinki was a kind of recuperation. In June 1944 he went into a Hospital and was back on flying status in Oktober 1944 as Staffelkapitän 10./JG 301. He never got the chance to receive the Finish award.

Jörg

[Carl-Fredrik Geust]

Hauptmann Heinz Dietsche was awarded the Finnish pilot badge ("Wings") "honoris causa" on 12 May 1944 (NOT December 1944, which date is have been absolutely impossible,as Finnish-German relations were broken after the armistice with USSR already on 4/5 September 1944. In December 1944 there was already full fighting "Lapland War" between Finnish and German troops in northern Finland!).

Jörg - therefore your father should have received this award before departing from Finland! He might well later additionally have got another Finnish decoration (the "Wings" are in fact not an Order, to say it literally), which he possibly thus never reeceived.