Fiat CR.32

[Neil Wakefield]

I've just received a copy of the Ali d'Italia booklet on the CR.32. It has a table on production. The last entry in the table is for serials MM4465-4494 for 30 quaters delivered between November and December 1938. This website:
http://www.comandosupremo.com/Airplane_Orders.xls shows 50 CR.32s MM4618-4667 ordered in 1940. Is the Ali d'Italia booklet missing this 1940 order or is the ComandoSupremo website wrong?

Thanks,

Neil

[Gianandrea Bussi]

Neil,
according to three other published sources the last CR.32 Quater batch was MM 4618-4667. One source adds also MM 4668.

Best regards

Gianandrea

[Stig Jarlevik]

Neil

Back in the 1970's Giorgio Apostolo in his Aerofan also published the last batch of CR.32quater as MM4618-4667

However he states they were delivered between May and August 1939 and NOT in 1940.

Since the CR.32 at that time was completely outclassed even by its younger brother the CR.42, it seems this order was done to use them as advanced trainers, but the Italians were indeed slow to appreciate the advances of the monoplanes so it's not impossible they were bought to actually BE used by fronline units, although I doubt they were actually used in combat

B Rgds
Stig

[Håkan]

Hello,

Fiat CR.32 MM 4665 suffered an accident in North Africa on 14 September 1940, when 160a Squadriglia’s Sergente Maggiore Corrado Sarti hit a Ba.65/A80 (MM75257) on landing. The two aircraft were written off and the pilot was wounded. Sartis was returning from an attack in the Bir El Kreigat area.

Best wishes/Håkan Gustavsson

[Stig Jarlevik]

Thanks Håkan

This "incident" is not mentioned in Fighters over the Desert. Since I have very rarely seen any mentioning of either operational MM numbers or detailed losses, are these MM numbers luck from your side, or have you/the Italian historians found some "cache" with listed loss records??

Cheers
Stig

[Håkan]

Hej Stig,

Actually, my note was a tidbit from mine and Ludovico Slongo's forthcoming "Desert Prelude", which hopefully will be out next year (see: http://mmpbooks.biz/books/forthcoming.html).

Best wishes/Håkan

[Ludovico Slongo]

Dear Neil,
the eventual production of CR 32s into 1940 was something that made me curious so I 've had a quick look into my books and altough confirming you that the Ali d'Italia booklet records the last production batch as being M.M 4465-4494 from November to December 1938 I should also note that at least four other sources (three of them quoted also among the sources of the above mentioned booklet) put the end of the production of the CR 32 in 1939.
Emilio Brotzu, Michele Caso and Gherardo Cosolo in their classic first volume of "Dimensione Cielo Caccia e Assalto" recorded the last production batch as being M.M. 4618- M.M. 4667 from September 1938 to May 1939.
Nicola Malizia in "Il Fiat CR 32 poesia del volo" gave the same information.
Roberto Gentilli in the second volume of "L'aviazione da caccia Italiana 1918-1939" wrote that (just a loose translation) :" (...) at the end of 1938 the guns of the various versions of the CR 32 were standardized as a 12,7 (SAFAT) and a 7,7 (SAFAT) (...) and the fighters of the last production batch from the M.M. 4658 were delivered from February 1939 with these weapons".
Finally Piero Vergnano in "The Fiat Fighters 1930-1945" stated that: "in the spring of 1939 the last CR 32 quater, the NC 1209 (NC is possibly a progressive production number) left Aeritalia's assembly line to make way for the CR 42.
This let me think that the last production of the Fiat CR 32 was indeed in spring 1939 possibly the M.M. 4618- M.M. 4667 batch, built for the Italian Air Force, and I can guess a misprint in the book of Apostolo.
The presence of M.M 4665 in Libya in the ranks of 12 Gruppo Assalto that received most of its fighters from 8° Gruppo Caccia when this unit converted on CR 42s in July 1940 let me think that the planes of the last batch were possibly sent to 8° Gruppo that in fact in spring 1939 ended the conversion from Breda Ba 65K14 to Fiat CR 32. So they were not training machines.
The production of the CR 32 in 1940 seems to me a wrong piece of information.

Stig,

the CR 32s saw combat in North Africa, East Africa, Greece, the Aegean Islands and finally over Sicily against the French and every time they soldiered well being able to shot down not Gladiators and Blenheims but also a couple of SAAF Hurricanes and a Maryland without suffering crippling losses in the air.
It seems that Tenente Alberto Veronese of 410a Squadriglia C.T. in East Africa was able to shot down (alone or with the help of a wingman) one Hurricane, five Blenheims, one Battle and one Maryland in seven months of operations. All the victories -confirmed by post war studies- were claimed flying a CR 32 quater.

Hope you find this interesting.

Ludovico

[Stig Jarlevik]

Many thanks Håkan and Ludovico

Indeed interesting info. Look forward to your book. Checked the CR.32 units at Italy's entry into WW 2 and found actually six Gruppi equipped with the type, 2nd, 3rd, 8th, 17th, 24th and 160th! Quite surprising. Three independent squadriglia, 163rd, 410th and 411th were also equipped with the type....

The successes you mention by Veronese, an outstanding pilot as it happened, was achieved by using diving ability to momentarily achieve higher speed and surprise during the attack. Veronese was after all shot down by a second Hurricane to the one he managed himself to shoot down. Strangely enough Shores only verify 4 + 2 kills to Veronese. No Battle and only four Blenheims. Perhaps the whole story will be in your book??

Cheers
Stig

[Neil Wakefield]

Thanks for all the information guys.

Regards,

Neil

[Dénes Bernád]

Was the overall CR.32 production issue, including exports (based on construction numbers, not MM numbers) ever solved?

I am trying to sort out the CR.32s delivered to Hungary, including their sub-types, but was unsuccessful so far. I need this for an upcoming book on Hungarian fighters I am currently working on.

Any help in clarifying the exports to Hungary would be much appreciated.

Thank you, in advance,