JU 88 INFO PLEASE ?

[SEAN RYAN]

Hi , does anyone have any information regarding a Ju 88 with the work number 8127 please ?

Thanks, Sean.

[John Beaman]

I have limited information:


Ju 88A-5, 8127, Herbst, Ofw. Karl-Heinz, NK+BG, 18-Feb-42, Local flight., Deutschland, FB Karl-Heinz HerbstMedcalf, Gandau-H, Siebel Flzg.Werke Halle-Leipzig in Sep-40.

[edNorth]

Some discussion has been on this here before, 2001.

8127 Ju 88 A-5 NK+BG Luftwaffe
-? Ju 88 A 9K+CR III/KG 51 (Hungary)
OPS (F) [mission to Yugoslavia] hit by AA fire over Ilidza [health resort Hotels] nr Sarajevo, belly-landed on return (Shiklos) Siklós, Hungary 13.04.1941 (F Ofw. Muller and crew safe)
[Not stated in Shores, Cull & Malizia “Air War for Yogoslavia, Greece and Crete 1940-41” P.224 - Only mentioning of unit KG 51 attack on health resort Hotels on orders of Adolf Hitler (as he belived Ygoslavian government had taken refuge there); photo in Aerohistoria August 1991 (see post by Ciglic on TOCH! forum 23.06.2001; question by Peter Zambori on TOCH! forum 23.06.2001)]
- Ju 88 NK+BG Ju-Werft Langenau (Luftwaffe)
Known flown Langenau to Gerdauen 18.02.42 [F Karl-Heinz Herbst; as Ju 88 NK+BG in logbook]

best regards
Ed

[Jim P.]

Ed, thanks for the additional information for WNr. 8127 - I had missed that 2001 thread entirely. In the interest of sharing, here's some additional information for an LG 1 loss that I literally stumbled across this morning while reviewing the FB of Helmut Hartlich from my collection. Maybe it will prove useful to you and others. No pilot or crew were listed in the loss or in Peter Taghon's LG 1 history.

Ju 88A-5, 3214, Lenzner, Fw. Rolf, , III., 9., LG 1, , L1+CT, PI+GP, , 15-Feb-41, Bruchlandung due to Flak. Took off from Catania at 03.50., , X.Fl.Korp/Mittelmeer, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #3)-Vol.4; Taghon, LG 1, I, p.451; FB H. Hartlich, , Fl.Pl. Tripolis, b, F, Bf Fw. Helmut Hartlich, 10.00, Henschel Flzg.Werke Schönefeld in Sep-40.

[edNorth]

Ok. Basic incident already in my lists, thanks for unit code. BTW most Ju 88 "production data" you often provide, derived from Medcalf lists, is off mark one or more months ( I think by using the data wrongly, citing total acceptance figures as production figures?)
Here (for 3214) it should be August as production month but likely turn of August/September for acceptance (usually two to four weeks), and this (here) is interpolated from "hard" data (dataplate info) and compared to planned ones from the then current "Lieferplan 18/3" and corrected to actual components reported made on 31.07.1940 ("JFM FSD Nachbau" data for all factories), and how many were in HFW flight testing or acceptance process that date.
Slight variations are to this, of course, as factories did not deliver equal amounts (only in the end total for some) and some individual planes were delivered late or not at all. And some figures given turn out be in error.
Ed

[SEAN RYAN]

Thank you gentlemen, for taking the time and trouble to dig out this excellent information and reply to my query. It's much appreciated.

Thanks, Sean.

[ArtieBob]

Dear Ed,

I am quite aware of the difference between production and acceptance. My list was made up from a melding of 3 or 4 primary documents and my lists (for any that I have given them to, if they ask me, I will tell are approximations for production months, which may be useful for a number of purposes.) I do not have the monthly production detail sheets (by W.Nr.) for JFM and license producers which exist for other manufacturers and surely did exist for the Ju 88 program at one time.
Now to the definition of what is the production date. Was it when the aircraft rolled out of the production bay (it could be missing components at that point), was it when the manufacturer invoiced the RLM to be paid, was it when the aircraft made it's first flight, or even some other benchmark that we (having rather incomplete information) are unaware of? Perhaps someone will give an answer, but my feeling unless some additional data comes to hand, we will not know with complete precision. My method has always been a "best" approximation based on three or four sources that are close in numbers, but do not agree exactly.
I have worked in manufacturing at various times and I know first hand the variances between what goes on worksheets and what actually happened. So, even primary data is subject to errors, both unintentional and intentional. To discuss a individual W.Nr., as to whether it was "manufactured" in a specific month without having a window for tolerance seems to me to be somewhat akin to how many angels can fit on the head of a pin. Unless of course, there is available very specific documentation for that individual aeroplane, and in my mind that would not be, for example, a first flight date from a logbook.

Best Regards,

ArtieBob

[edNorth]

I beg your pardon. My statement is correct but you provide no answer towards which one yours is, "production month" or "acceptance month". As I understand it nobody disagrees on or required definitions of what is a production month, delivery comes later.
Furthermore - I excuse for posting this here in this thread or if the language used is making any misunderstandings - I can not see them as "useful" if they are false (in meaning of incorrect), save for giving false conclutions or are these guessimates, i.e taking yearly accepted total and dividing by 12? If so then that might raise question on research methods or even overall accuracy.

Still waiting for what you promished in exchange, how many years ago now, five years?

best regards
Ed