2./KG27 Incident , March 5, 1941

[schnellmeyer]

On March 5 , 1941 two He 111's attacked a Sunderland flying boat of No.10 Squadron RAAF off the southwest coast of Ireland . One of the He 111 was shot down , 1G+EK and the other was badly damaged .
I would be very grateful if anybody could help me with details on the He 111 that was damaged , this plane later landed in France with two of the crew wounded. Thanks

[Matti Salonen]

Unfortunately no info on this aircraft of 1./KG 27, but some on the crew:
Flugzeugführer Ofw Brasch, Kurt, verletzt
Bordmechaniker Uffz Fenus, Konrad, +

Matti

[schnellmeyer]

Thank you Matti , do you possibly know what airfield they landed at in France ?
Also I thought this aircraft was from 2./KG27 .

[John Beaman]

He 111H-5, 3734, Brodowski, Ltn. Hans, I./Gruppe, 2./KG 27, 1G+EK, 05-Mar-41, MIA due to Luftkampf with Sunderland 'J' from 10 Sq. RAAF. B KIA, Bf & Bm MIA., Lfl.3/Atlantik, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #3)-Vol.4; Waiss, Boelcke-Archiv, III, p.26; Foreman, 1941-The Turning Point, I, p.207; The Blitz, Then & Now II, p.456, vor Skelling Rock, Ireland100%, FB Ofw. Toni Böhner, Bf Fw. Willi Korell & Bm Fw. Friedrich Alter12.06

[Matti Salonen]

No info on the airfield. 3734 was from 2./KG 27, but this "unknown" was according to NVM from 1./KG 27.

Matti

[Col Bruggy]

Hello,

Photo of the Sunderland, here:

http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205208681

And the crew:

AUS156 S/L (Capt.) Hugh Milton BIRCH RAAF
AUS464 F/O (1st Pilot) Athol Galway Hope WEARNE RAAF
AUS202242 Sgt (Obs.) Harold Ballan O'CONNOR RAAF
AUS2316 Sgt (Obs.) William Sibbald MOORE RAAF
AUS4193 Cpl (Fitter 2E) Solomon ABADEE RAAF (Rear Gunner)
AUS3948 LAC (Fitter 2E) Thomas Harold DUCKWORTH RAAF (Air Gunner)
AUS207727 LAC (WEM) Norman James McLEOD RAAF (Air Gunner)
AUS3845 Cpl (W.Op.) Alan Charles Hillsdon PETHERICK RAAF (Air Gunner)
AUS205709 LAC (Fitter 2A) Robert Herbert ASKER RAAF (Air Gunner)
AUS210078 LAC (Armourer) Mervyn John William MORRISON RAAF
AUS14292 LAC (Armourer) Harold Muir RAINBOW RAAF

The crew mistakenly identified their attackers as Ju 88's !

Col.

[schnellmeyer]

Thanks , John , Matti and Col.Bruggy .
I have contact with the family of ofw Toni Bohner who was on the crew of " 1G + EK " but I am trying to find out who the crew of the other He111 were , I know this plane was damaged and two of the crew were wounded . It did returned to France but to which airfield I am not sure .
Col.Bruggy , yes I have this photo of the Sunderland flying boat . I contacted the IWM and got the rights to publish it in our up coming book on Luftwaffe crashes in ireland .
Thanks again for all yer help gentlemen .

[Tony Kearns]

Schnellmeyer you claim that one of the Heinkels of 2. /KG27 was” badly damaged “but made it back to France with two crewmen injured. Perhaps you could quote a source for this? It could clarify the problem.
Matti Salonen’s knowledgable, as usual, posting prompts me to raise the question, If the Heinkel with Ofw. Brasch and Uffz. Fenns (my listing not Fenus) on board was 1./KG27 the possibility exists that it was not involved in the Sunderland combat. 235 and 236 Sqns RAF Coastal Command were operating Fastnet patrols all that day and a short time after the Sunderland incident they encountered two Heinkels 111 and in the encounter 235 Sqn reported numerous hits on one of the Heinkels before breaking off the engagement. Perhaps it is possible that this was when they were injured.

Another anomaly arises, Toni Bohner 2./KG27 He111 1G+EK killed in the Sunderland encounter is listed as Ofw. But in my copy of the German War Graves Commission list he is listed as a Leutnant and is likewise listed on his grave marker in Glencree in Ireland. Also in the Irish Military DRS AI files he is also listed as Lt. Is there such thing as a posthumous increase in rank or is this an error?
Regards
Tony K

[schnellmeyer]

Just to keep you happy Tony , my source is from Knight's Cross Holder Gerhard Krems who served in KG27 . I have a detailed letter from him dated 21.07.99 in which he gives a detailed account of the action which resulted in the loss of 1G+EK. There exists a Flugbuch from one of the crew of the He111 that was damaged in the attack on the Sunderland and this contains the details of the attack also.
The He111 of Ofw Brasch was not involved in the above action .
Yes , it was possible for German service men to be promoted after they were killed , it was also known they received awards after they were killed in action.
I am aware that the grave of Toni Bohner in Glencree shows his rank as Lt. as does Military Archives in Ireland but in a photo taken shortly before he was killed he wears the rank of Ofw.
Now , I hope this information is of help to you .

[Tony Kearns]

Originally Posted by schnellmeyer

Just to keep you happy Tony , my source is from Knight's Cross Holder Gerhard Krems who served in KG27 . I have a detailed letter from him dated 21.07.99 in which he gives a detailed account of the action which resulted in the loss of 1G+EK. There exists a Flugbuch from one of the crew of the He111 that was damaged in the attack on the Sunderland and this contains the details of the attack also.
The He111 of Ofw Brasch was not involved in the above action .
Yes , it was possible for German service men to be promoted after they were killed , it was also known they received awards after they were killed in action.
I am aware that the grave of Toni Bohner in Glencree shows his rank as Lt. as does Military Archives in Ireland but in a photo taken shortly before he was killed he wears the rank of Ofw.
Now , I hope this information is of help to you .

Schnellmeyer, your preamble is unnecessarily condescending.
In your posting #1 you state that the Heinkel which accompanied the 1G+EK in the Sunderland attack had two crew men injured and landed in France. Yet in Post #9 you state that Ofw.Brasch was not involved and also now claim that a Flugbuch of one of the crew of the damaged Heinkel exists and contains the details of the incident. Why not mention this previously. Are you drip feeding this forum?
I have searched back through my early notes and I believe that the Heinkel from 2 Staffel in company with the 1G+EK was the 1G+BK (Sunderland incident). Further searching would suggest that the Heinkel with the wounded Ofw. Brasch and Uffz. Fenns on board was one of four aircraft from 1 Staffel operating in the same area. I lean towards the 1G+IH as being its identity and landed with wounded at Brest Sud at 16.00 hrs. From trying to assemble this jigsaw I am of the opinion that it was in company with the 1G+AH when in involved in the combat with the Blenheims.
I would appreciate any comments, corrections or suggestions to my conclusions.

I appreciate your clarification of Toni Bohner’s status but I must mention that he is not listed in Irish Military Archives as a Lt. I discovered this in the AI (Air Intelligence) DRS files many years ago when attempting to salvage them, only a small number were recovered and are not archived.