Gunther Schack JG51 18.09.43

[keith A]

At around 1700, South of Yelnya, Ltn Schack claimed a Lagg-5 and a Lagg-3. 813 IAP lost 3 La-5 at this time, Lts Kalenski, Tyuterev and Kostenko are shot down. Kostenko survives. are these combats related?


regards

Keith

[Nokose]

Keith, Do you have any mission times for these Soviet pilots?

St. Lt. Anatoliy Pavlovich Kalenskiy (AE C.O.) [KIA] was with the 263 IAP it looks like they might have still been flying LaGG-3. Location Filatki (?)
Ml. Lt. Vladimir Sergeevich Tyuterev [KIA] 813 IAP La-5 Yel'nya
Lt. Nikolay Maksimovich Kostenko 813 IAP La-5

I see two III/JG 51 pilots in that area and at least one I/JG 51 making claims.
Lt. Guenther Schack 7./JG 51 La-5 (102) 10:12 35 Ost/ 35561, 12 km SSE of Yel'nya, La-5 (103) 17:00 35514, 17 km S of Yel'nya, Yak-7 (104) 17:16 35377, 12 km SW of Yel'nya.

Obfw. Wilhelm Kueken 9./JG 52
La-5 (35) 09:20 SW Yel'nya
Yak-9 (36) 16:12 SW of Yel'nya
Yak-9 (37) 16:20 S of Yel'nya

[keith A]

Hi, not much. According to the account the air battle was around 17.25 and the Russian formation of 6 La-5 was attacked by 3 separate pairs of Fw190. Kalensky was shot down first, the other two (part of a flight led by Lt Zelenkin) were brought down a few minutes later.

best regards

Keith

[Nokose]

Keith, If the time is 17:25 Moscow time it will be Kueken but Yak-9 are very different then La-5. The I./JG 51 claims were after 13:00 (B) so they are out. That would leave one Soviet fighter as unclaimed with either pilot.

[keith A]

Hi Nokose,

What is the difference between German time and Russian time? I assumed one hour but your reply seems to indicate there's quite a difference.

best regards

Keith

[Nokose]

I thought at one time that they were using eastern European time which would be one hour difference but the Germans were using German Summer time through 1941 and up to the fall of 1942. The Germans then followed the normal time changes of Summer time (or Daylight savings time). The Soviet Union never used it during the war.