Fw Franz Goletz III/KG77 KIA 5.4.41

[steve sheridan]

Hi im seeking information on the loss of two Ju88's of III/KG77 5.4.41 .
Both a/c were in a collision at Fl Pl Juvincourt and were destroyed
The pilot of one of the a/c was Fw Franz Goletz who was badly injured on 23.10.40 at Neuilly.
I would be keen to establish the staffel he flew with, also any a/c codes of both aircraft if known.
Any help would be appreciated.
Best regs,
Steve.

[Matti Salonen]

1941-04-05, 7./KG 77, Ju 88 A-5, 888219, Fl.Pl. Juvincourt, Zusammenstoß mit landenden Ju 88 A-5, Werk.-Nr. 880546. Bruch 100 %.
Flugzeugführer Lt Siegl, Franz, +
Flzg.-Mech. Gefr Spitzenberger, Adolf, +
1.Wart Uffz Hoheisel, Maximilian, +
1941-04-05, 8./KG 77, Ju 88 A-5, 880546, Fl.Pl. Juvincourt, Zusammenstoß mit landenden Ju 88 A-5, Werk.-Nr. 888219. Bruch 100 %.
Flugzeugführer Fw Goletz, Franz, +
Bordschütze Ogfr Krautwurst, Herbert, +
1.Wart Fw Blaurock, Simon, +

Matti

[steve sheridan]

Good evening Matti i hope your well!
Thank you for the info on Goletz's demise... it would appear he moved to 8/KG77 following his recovery from his previous accident.
Much appreciated,
Steve.

[Jim P.]

WNr. 888219 was also reported as lost on 19-May-41 with 2./KüFlGr. 606. Is there another WNr. listed for this machine? Or is this just an unexplained duplicate entry?

Ju 88A-5, 8219, Beitzke, Hptm. Rolf, , I., 2., KüFlGr. 606, schwarze B, 7T+BK, NE+CS?, , 19-May-41, MIA with crew due to Flak during sortie to W. Ireland., Bs remains later recovered., Lfl.3/Atlantik, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #3)-Vol.4; Foreman, 1941-The Turning Point, II, p.235; Blitz, Then & Now, p.34, Medcalf, vor Falmouth, 100%, F, Bf Uffz. Erwin Mayer, Bm Uffz. Max Adam & Bs Fw. Richard Pape, , Siebel Flzg.Werke Halle-Leipzig in Feb-41?

[Stig Jarlevik]

Jim

May I just point out that one of your references (Foreman and 1941 The turning point Vol 2 page 235) states the WNr was 8213.

However the Blitz, then and now DO state WNr 8219!

No idea which is correct however....

Cheers
Stig

[Matti Salonen]

8213 was lost lost 1942-10-07, when operated by 12./KG 3. NVMs give 8219 for both losses: 1941-04-05 (7./KG 77) and 1941-05-19 (2./Kü.Fl.Gr. 606). I have loss data for every one of 8210 - 8220 except for 8218. That makes me to suspect, that either of these "8219" in fact is 8218. Unfortunately so far no way to proof that and therefore have to consider it an unexplained duplicate entry.

Matti

[Stig Jarlevik]

Thanks Matti

Just an idea with regard to the WNr 8218 theory.
A worn typewriter digit 8 may well get through/being read as a digit 3 on the finished page, especially if you are reading from let's say copy three or something....

Cheers
Stig

[Jim P.]

Stig - Thanks for that. I was aware of it, but in the early days of building the my db I wasn't quite as fastidious of noting such conflicts - WNr. 8213 was also recorded as a 100% loss with IV./KG 3 on 7-Oct-42.

Matti - Thank you for your input. Assuming the reported SKZ equates to the right WNr. (and that's certainly not always the case), I have Ju 88 'NE+CR' as being with II./Gr.Kampffl.Sch. 3 in Sep-41. Per the SKZ data I have that would equate to Nr. 8218. The FB of Arthur Lekschat lists three flights on 1-Sep-41 with him as Begleiter (most likely as the Bo). Can one of our SKZ specialists verify the SKZ & WNr. one way or the other?